Ryan Petris your on a roll. I wholeheartedly agree.
On 2024-04-25 13:45, Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss wrote:
> If you're asking whether the workers got their fair share of building
> a bridge 100 years ago given that it's stood for 100 years and that
> it's gotten a lot of use, I'd say that it really doesn't matter. The
> workers were paid a fair wage for their labor, regardless of what the
> finished product was.
>
> Lets say that I was a scientist and I was paid $1 million per year for
> 10 years to find a cure for cancer, and I ended up finding one. The
> cure would be worth billions because it would be universally needed
> everywhere, and if you were the only person/company that had it then
> it would be worth whatever you wanted to charge for it. Should I as
> the scientist complain that I only got $10 million out of the deal
> when it's worth billions, trillions even?
>
> If you say yes, well you're not really accounting for the risk vs
> reward. Had I as the scientist not found a cure, I'd still have made
> $10 million over the last 10 years and, if I were smart about my
> money, I'd be able to live better than most without having to lift a
> finger again the rest of my life. The company that paid me, however,
> is not only out the $10 million they paid me, but all of the
> associated costs of providing me a lab, a workspace, and materials
> that likely cost at least 10x what I was paid over the same period.
>
> Therefore I, as the worker, had no risk. I come to work every day, do
> some work, and get paid. The company fronting the money, workspace,
> etc., took a huge risk and capital investment; without that risk and
> investment, the cure would have likely never been found. The reward
> that they get is the offset of the risk that they took. Nothing is
> ever guaranteed to succeed.
>
> On Thu, Apr 25, 2024, at 12:51 PM, greg zegan wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Do you ever wonder if you are really getting rewarded for all the
>> "value" you are providing for that "stake holder"?
>>
>> If you look at the builders of a bridge for instance that was built
>> 100 years ago when the wages were far below the
>>
>> wage of today you can see that the stakeholders are now benefiting
>> from the labor of workers 100 years ago.
>>
>> That project is still providing revenue that the builders may be
>> entitled to if you think about the long term value added.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 12:20:20 PM MST, Ryan Petris
>> <ryan@petris.net> wrote:
>>
>> As a software developer of 15 years, I personally would not want a
>> union, at least not one in a traditional sense. Additionally, I've
>> never been in a union so maybe my understanding is wrong or
>> outdated, however my reasoning for not wanting one are:
>>
>> * I want my salary/benefits to be based on what I personally can
>> bring to the table.
>>
>> * Similarly to #1, if I and/or my team perform better than the rest
>> of the company, I want us to be recognized for that _and_
>> compensated appropriately.
>>
>> * I don't want to start at the bottom of the totem pole at a new
>> company because I'm the new guy.
>>
>> * I don't want to work with people that should have been let go due
>> to their performance but are effectively being protected by the
>> union.
>>
>> * I don't want to be forced to strike because the union is playing
>> political games that I don't care about.
>>
>> There's a time and place for unions; when you're in the top 10% of
>> national salaries, you're not in a position to need one.
>>
>> All that said, I work remotely, for a company that's not based in
>> Arizona, and therefore am paid relatively well compared to the local
>> Market.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 25, 2024, at 11:53 AM, greg zegan via PLUG-discuss
>> wrote:
>>
>> would it be time to unionize or change the way business is done in
>> AZ?
>>
>> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 11:50:10 AM MST, trent shipley
>> <trent.shipley@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> No. As a rule software engineers/programmers/developers/computer
>> scientists all see themselves as professionals who are above
>> unionizing and seldom or never do. I think we're seeing the effect
>> of Arizona being a provincial, 3rd world location for headquarters
>> and software development options.
>>
>> It's similar to "we make the chips. We aren't friken good enough to
>> DESIGN the chips. They do that in NICE places."
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 9:35 AM greg zegan <gjzegan@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Wow!
>>
>> thanks.
>>
>> sure look like they are taking advantage of the Right to work state
>> workers.
>>
>> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 09:08:07 AM MST, trent shipley via
>> PLUG-discuss <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>
>> https://www.onetonline.org/link/localwages/15-1251.00?st=AZ
>>
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