Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX

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Author: Joshua Zeidner
Date:  
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX
and who enforces your contracts, Keith?

-jmz

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 8:12 PM, keith smith<> wrote:
>
>
> Only problem is you have government in business.
>
> ------------------------
> Keith Smith
>
>
> --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Lyle Tuttle <> wrote:
>
>> From: Lyle Tuttle <>
>> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX
>> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <>
>> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 7:58 PM
>>
>>
>> The city of Surprise has moved into a new
>> city hall complex,
>> and are turning the old offices / building into a
>> "start-up" or
>> incubator for new or emerging businesses.
>>
>>
>> lyle tuttle
>>
>>
>> At 07:50 PM 8/1/2009, you wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 1,
>> 2009 at 6:50 PM,
>> keith smith<> wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I think what is really missing from this equation is
>> mentoring and
>> training.
>>
>>
>>   what I would like to see is some real support from
>> AZ government
>> to
>>
>> help make tech companies feel welcome here.  This
>> means:
>>
>>
>>   1) making the valley a good place not only to build
>> a company but
>> to
>>
>> build a *career*.  this means buy in from both sides
>> of the
>> equation.
>>
>> I would like to see a bit more address at lower capital
>> levels, but
>>
>> that may prove to be difficult.  It seems that most
>> existing
>> concepts
>>
>> are kind of stuck in the industrial model, where you build
>> a factory
>>
>> in a place with low taxes and hire low wage workers, but
>> technology
>>
>> requires high wage workers who demand a good thriving job
>> market.
>> The
>>
>> needs are quite different.  The biggest issue with
>> starting a
>> company
>>
>> out here is finding people.  Where are all the
>> people?  in
>> CA.
>>
>> because it has a good job market.  If we can outsource
>> to India,
>> we
>>
>> sure as hell can outsource to Arizona.
>>
>>
>>   2) setting up low cost legal structure and as you
>> say mentoring
>> to
>>
>> really help stimulate technology development.
>> We've seen (at
>> least
>>
>> nominal) efforts in the past.  Why did they
>> fail?  This means
>> real and
>>
>> adequate assistance in bringing concepts to production and
>> market.
>> A
>>
>> small investment in this area will yield returns in tax
>> base and
>>
>> property value by a factor of hundreds.  Arizona has
>> the potential
>> to
>>
>> pick up a lot of this commercial activity because
>> California is
>>
>> currently set to become a tax strapped nightmare state to
>> build your
>>
>> business.  If AZ fails to see the opportunity here, we
>> will lose
>> out
>>
>> big time.  Currently the budget proceedings are still
>> in
>> gridlock.
>>
>>
>>   the mayor of Phoenix seems to have the right idea,
>> he was
>> suggesting
>>
>> recently a green technology center near Phx center.  I
>> think thats
>> the
>>
>> direction AZ needs to go.  -jmz
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I like the idea that folks are getting together to
>> network.
>> This is a really cool idea.  Even for non-technical
>> stuff like
>> finding out how people deal with customers, contracting,
>> book-keeping,
>> ETC.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > ------------------------
>>
>> > Keith Smith
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Joshua Zeidner
>> <>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >> From: Joshua Zeidner <>
>>
>> >> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in
>> PHX
>>
>> >> To: "Main PLUG discussion list"
>> <>
>>
>> >> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 6:08 PM
>>
>> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:09 PM,
>>
>> >> Alan Dayley<>
>>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> > Joshua,
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > I put all your replies together in one long
>> document
>>
>> >> and reread them.
>>
>> >> > I am still confused a bit.
>> Enlightenment via
>> email
>>
>> >> rarely occurs.
>>
>> >> > However, I really want to understand your
>> position in
>>
>> >> this discussion.
>>
>> >> >  Let me summarize what I understand from
>> your
>>
>> >> replies.
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > ---[Start my paraphasing of your
>> comments]---
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > - There is a small group or groups of people
>> who keep
>>
>> >> spinning off
>>
>> >> > communities using tired marketing
>> techniques.
>> This
>>
>> >> results in blogs
>>
>> >> > but not true communities.
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > - Some of these people cannot deal with
>> existing
>>
>> >> structure and the
>>
>> >> > efforts of the past.
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > - These weak attempts do not articulate goals
>> or
>>
>> >> purpose well, if at all.
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > - We must honestly look at criticism to learn
>> and
>>
>> >> improve.
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > - These weak people need to address the
>> efforts of the
>>
>> >> past and
>>
>> >> > provide suggestions on how they can be
>> improved upon.
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > - Getting political support will provide
>> legitimacy to
>>
>> >> their efforts.
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > - Phoenix will attract technology businesses
>> because
>>
>> >> of the relative
>>
>> >> > low cost and this will help improve things.
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > - You have first hand experiences of weak,
>> marketing
>>
>> >> fronted,
>>
>> >> > community building efforts.
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > - Many 'entrepreneurs' have grand
>> ideas but get
>>
>> >> nowhere with them
>>
>> >> > because they are not real businesses.
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > - People at a co-working location or coffee
>> shop will
>>
>> >> not help you
>>
>> >> > with your business unless you pay them.
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > - Most people at co-working started their one
>> person
>>
>> >> business after
>>
>> >> > being laid-off and are not serious about
>> it.
>> They
>>
>> >> are really just
>>
>> >> > looking for the next full time gig.
>> This will get
>> in
>>
>> >> your way if you
>>
>> >> > have real business work to do.
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > - We must look truthfully at this issue if we
>> are to
>>
>> >> make progress.
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > - There are no serious incubators and
>> entrepreneurial
>>
>> >> meetups in
>>
>> >> > Phoenix.  No announcements on VC funding
>> of
>> companies
>>
>> >> so it's not
>>
>> >> > really entrepreneurial growth.
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > ---[End my paraphrasing of your comments]---
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > I see validity in every one of these
>> comments.  I
>>
>> >> also think many of
>>
>> >> > them can be balanced by the other point of
>> view.
>> I
>>
>> >> still have
>>
>> >> > questions, if I may ask, before I state too
>> much of my
>>
>> >> own thinking.
>>
>> >> > I want to learn more about your thinking.
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > 1. What does "deal with existing
>> structure"
>> mean?
>>
>> >>  This confuses me,
>>
>> >> > not know what structure you are talking
>> about.
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >>   Many user groups have been formed and
>> continue
>> to
>>
>> >> exist... how is
>>
>> >> <groupX> different?  other than its led
>> by
>>
>> >> person Y?  I mean dealing
>>
>> >> with some of these groups I feel like Im back to
>> age 8
>>
>> >> trying to gain
>>
>> >> admittance into the neighborhood treehouse.
>> Perhaps I
>>
>> >> should spend
>>
>> >> more time drinking beer with these people?
>> Seeing the
>>
>> >> same small
>>
>> >> group churning out 'communities' is at
>> first funny, then
>>
>> >> annoying.  I
>>
>> >> just see a real lack of serious intent, and unless
>> that is
>>
>> >> noted
>>
>> >> publicly, it makes all of us look bad.  I
>> really dont
>>
>> >> think Im being
>>
>> >> destructive or malicious here, Im pointing out
>> some valid
>>
>> >> observations.
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > 2. To what efforts of the past are you
>> referring?
>> I
>>
>> >> want to
>>
>> >> > understand the size and nature of efforts to
>> creating
>>
>> >> a community that
>>
>> >> > you feel were legitimate but perhaps did not
>> work as
>>
>> >> planned.
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >>   I remember when I first came to AZ
>> that there was
>> an
>>
>> >> tech
>>
>> >> incubator...  what happened to it?
>> Which
>>
>> >> political agents currently
>>
>> >> support technology development in the
>> valley?  what do
>>
>> >> they think
>>
>> >> about your org?  these things are pretty
>> basic...
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > 3. What political support is needed?
>> You mean
>>
>> >> government funding of
>>
>> >> > events or startups or just verbal support or
>> what?
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >>   I wouldn't expect funding, but it
>> would be good
>> to
>>
>> >> see some
>>
>> >> political buy in.  Lack of just supports my
>> opinions,
>>
>> >> that its really
>>
>> >> as Lisa said, camouflage for poor organization.
>>
>> >> Without any good
>>
>> >> signposts, all this will produce are people who
>> get jaded
>>
>> >> and
>>
>> >> disaffected with regards to this location.
>> If you had
>>
>> >> something
>>
>> >> together I doubt that a good politician would turn
>> you
>>
>> >> down.
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > 4. Why is it wrong or a problem for someone
>> who is
>>
>> >> laid-off to have
>>
>> >> > grand ideas, talk about them and they never
>> come to
>>
>> >> be?
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >>   Its not.  As I said, I don't
>> find any of
>> these
>>
>> >> things highly
>>
>> >> offensive- but like you I am free to express
>> myself.
>>
>> >> Sorry if its not
>>
>> >> filled with abundant exaltations.
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > 5. Is it not conceivable that people might
>> help each
>>
>> >> other in business
>>
>> >> > efforts?  Isn't strengthening and
>> creating such a
>>
>> >> culture a good idea
>>
>> >> > or should such a goal not be pursued because
>> it is not
>>
>> >> practically
>>
>> >> > possible?
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >>   sure.  good thread btw.
>> -jmz
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > Alan
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Joshua
>> Zeidner<>
>>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> another great one:
>>
>> >> >>
>>
>> >> >> "OK, my question stands. Where are
>> the
>> incubators,
>>
>> >> the "bootstrap"
>>
>> >> >> seminars, the serious entrepreneurial
>> meetups in
>>
>> >> Phoenix??? (crickets
>>
>> >> >> chirping). Phoenix just ain't
>> happening as a
>>
>> >> serious place where
>>
>> >> >> serious people are doing serious things.
>> No one
>>
>> >> wants it badly enough
>>
>> >> >> here. This paper should be having at
>> least one
>>
>> >> article a week on a new
>>
>> >> >> startup and the VC firm who funded it.
>>
>> >> Helloooo????? is anybody out
>>
>> >> >> there...."
>>
>> >> >>
>>
>> >> >> a better way to phrase this: we need to
>> stop
>>
>> >> pretending these
>>
>> >> >> whimsical efforts churned out by local
>>
>> >> self-employed marketing experts
>>
>> >> >> are sufficient.  They are not.
>> We should
>> be
>>
>> >> asking the hard
>>
>> >> >> questions, not playing games.
>>
>> >> >>
>>
>> >> >> -jmz
>>
>> >> >>
>>
>> >> >>
>>
>> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Joshua
>>
>> >> Zeidner<>
>>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >>>  another point, honestly reading
>> through
>> some
>>
>> >> of the criticisms on
>>
>> >> >>> azcentral and being of the cafe
>> dwelling creed
>>
>> >> myself, I'd have to say
>>
>> >> >>> that many of those points are
>> accurate.
>> I've
>>
>> >> heard lots of
>>
>> >> >>> 'entrepreneurs' with big
>> ideas around here who
>>
>> >> never get anywhere with
>>
>> >> >>> them.  Sorry, but a word press
>> template
>>
>> >> doesn't make you an
>>
>> >> >>> entrepreneur.
>>
>> >> >>>
>>
>> >> >>>  "These are the same people
>> you see
>> at
>>
>> >> Starbucks, Boarders or any
>>
>> >> >>> other wi-fi hot spot, they are not
>>
>> >> entrepreneurs they are attention
>>
>> >> >>> (inappropriate term)."
>>
>> >> >>>
>>
>> >> >>>  "Many of the Co-Worker
>> location
>> founders
>>
>> >> tout other people to
>>
>> >> >>> collaborate with and who can
>> "compensate
>> for
>>
>> >> your deficiencies". Do
>>
>> >> >>> you really believe someone that you
>> are not
>>
>> >> paying as an employee is
>>
>> >> >>> going to somehow compensate for your
>>
>> >> deficiencies and make your
>>
>> >> >>> business better? That kind of help
>> doesn't
>>
>> >> come without a price."
>>
>> >> >>>
>>
>> >> >>>  oh so true...
>>
>> >> >>>
>>
>> >> >>>  "You are more likely to
>> get a bunch
>> of
>>
>> >> people chatting to you over
>>
>> >> >>> your "work" so you wont be
>> concentrating
>> as
>>
>> >> you should to focus on
>>
>> >> >>> your business. Most of these people
>> started
>>
>> >> businesses after being
>>
>> >> >>> laid off. They are searching for a
>> new job and
>>
>> >> they aren't really
>>
>> >> >>> serious about their
>> "businesses" so how
>> do you
>>
>> >> expect them to give you
>>
>> >> >>> valuable, serious advice. Are these
>> the kind
>>
>> >> of people you need to
>>
>> >> >>> compensate for your deficiencies? A
>> bunch of
>>
>> >> people half-as running
>>
>> >> >>> their "business" while
>> searching for a
>> real
>>
>> >> job and bothering you with
>>
>> >> >>> their expertise that got them laid
>> off in the
>>
>> >> first place."
>>
>> >> >>>
>>
>> >> >>>  oh so so true...
>>
>> >> >>>
>>
>> >> >>>  I would be willing to bet the
>> commenter
>>
>> >> above is an tried and true
>>
>> >> >>> successful entrepreneur.
>> Perhaps the
>> reason
>>
>> >> I am so skeptical is
>>
>> >> >>> because I know these kind of people
>> so well.
>>
>> >> >>>
>>
>> >> >>>  sorry I really wish I could be
>> more
>>
>> >> supportive... but :  truth is
>>
>> >> >>> the foundation of progress.
>>
>> >> >>>
>>
>> >> >>>  -jmz
>>
>> >> >>>
>>
>> >> >>>
>>
>> >> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:28 PM,
>> Joshua
>>
>> >> Zeidner<>
>>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >>>>  Alan,
>>
>> >> >>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>    Wish I had time
>> to respond to
>> all
>>
>> >> these points right now, not sure
>>
>> >> >>>> you read me the way I would
>> prefer
>>
>> >> however.  Its not so grave a
>>
>> >> >>>> warning, just getting the word
>> out on my
>>
>> >> first hand experiences.  Im
>>
>> >> >>>> just one of many- but hopefully
>> an
>>
>> >> impartial observer and someone
>>
>> >> >>>> genuinely concerned for AZ.
>>
>> >> >>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>  all the best, jmz
>>
>> >> >>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>
>>
>> >> >>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:12 PM,
>> Alan
>>
>> >> Dayley<>
>>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >>>>> Josh,
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> I feel warned.  And I
>> don't
>>
>> >> understand the reason for such a strong warning.
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> There are people in every
>> industry,
>>
>> >> government or community who wish
>>
>> >> >>>>> to fleece their
>> "community" for
>> their
>>
>> >> own profit instead of mutual
>>
>> >> >>>>> benefit.  The trick is
>> to find
>> the
>>
>> >> positive people and ignore the
>>
>> >> >>>>> rest.  Apply the same
>> filter with
>>
>> >> every event, group or blogger in the
>>
>> >> >>>>> lists and links I
>> provided.  I
>> don't
>>
>> >> expect bloggers or techies to be
>>
>> >> >>>>> any different, as if being
>> techie
>>
>> >> makes one a saint.
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> Some of those bloggers are
>> purely
>>
>> >> commercial or completely neglected,
>>
>> >> >>>>> I'm sure.  Some of
>> the groups or
>>
>> >> events or sites listed are lousy,
>>
>> >> >>>>> boring or poor marketing
>> excuses to
>>
>> >> sell something.  Some are not out
>>
>> >> >>>>> to create community but to
>> build a
>>
>> >> "kingdom" for their own benefit.
>>
>> >> >>>>> They are the duds.
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> Let's look at a few
>> positives:
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> - Read the Gangplank
>> Manifesto on
>>
>> >> their home page at
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> http://gangplankhq.com.  That looks like
>>
>> >> a great articulation of their
>>
>> >> >>>>> goals and purpose.  Ones
>> I
>> strongly
>>
>> >> support!
>>
>> >> >>>>> -- Read how the manifesto
>> came to be
>>
>> >> on Derek's blog at
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> http://derekneighbors.com/2009/07/collaborative-writing-or-how-the-gangplank-manifesto-was-written/
>>
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> - Gangplank has hosted or is
>> hosting:
>>
>> >> >>>>> -- MobiFest - a day long
>> conference on
>>
>> >> developing for phones like
>>
>> >> >>>>> iPhone or Android
>>
>> >> >>>>> -- Gangplank Jr. - a 2-3 hour
>> Saturday
>>
>> >> event for kids 5-15 to learn
>>
>> >> >>>>> programming concepts
>>
>> >> >>>>> -- Wordpress training classes
>> for
>>
>> >> minimal cost or no-cost for non-profit orgs
>>
>> >> >>>>> -- Laid Off Camp - a day
>> long
>>
>> >> conference on job searching and entreprenuership
>>
>> >> >>>>> -- Barcamp Pheonix - a day
>> long
>>
>> >> conference on software development
>>
>> >> >>>>> -- TEDx night - Watch ted.com
>> videos
>>
>> >> and discuss them
>>
>> >> >>>>> -- OpenPhoenix - a night of
>> open mic
>>
>> >> music and entertainment
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> - The last
>>
>> http://desertcodecamp.com/ was held on June 13th and
>>
>> >> nearly
>>
>> >> >>>>> filled DeVry's Phoenix
>> campus with
>>
>> >> developers talking about code or
>>
>> >> >>>>> making code.  Free lunch
>> of pizza
>> and
>>
>> >> sub sandwiches was provided too.
>>
>> >> >>>>>  Put together by
>> volunteers.
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> - If you're into
>> Microsoft based
>>
>> >> development tech, the people who
>>
>> >> >>>>> maintain the
>> http://azgroups.com
>> site do an annual all-day event at
>>
>> >> >>>>> venues like the Orphium
>> Theater and at
>>
>> >> no cost to attendees.  Fine,
>>
>> >> >>>>> it's marketing for MS but
>> it's put on
>>
>> >> by volunteers here in the valley
>>
>> >> >>>>> and a great way for people to
>> learn
>>
>> >> about things that improve their
>>
>> >> >>>>> career skills.
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> (
>> http://www.componentart.com/BLOGS/milos/archive/2009/06/02/scott-guthrie-event-2009-phoenix-az.aspx
>> )
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> - The local Ruby On Rails
>> group has
>>
>> >> monthly meetings with around 30
>>
>> >> >>>>> regularly in attendance.
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> - The Java group is also well
>> attended
>>
>> >> every month.
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> - The third
>> http://podcampaz.com/
>>  is coming up in November, put on
>>
>> >> by
>>
>> >> >>>>> voluteers at no cost
>> (donation
>>
>> >> requested) to attendees.  Had about 350
>>
>> >> >>>>> people attend last year (if I
>> recall)
>>
>> >> for two days of conference.
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> - The
>>
>> http://azentrepreneurship.com/ conference will be in
>>
>> >> November
>>
>> >> >>>>> for the forth year.
>> This one
>> costs
>>
>> >> $100+ but should be as well
>>
>> >> >>>>> attended as last year with
>> 200+
>>
>> >> people.  Funded and organized in part
>>
>> >> >>>>> by a local venture capital
>> group.
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> - The first
>>
>> http://ignitephoenix.com event was held a year ago
>> with
>>
>> >> a
>>
>> >> >>>>> little over 100 in attendance
>> and has
>>
>> >> grown to fill the 600 seat
>>
>> >> >>>>> Theather at Tempe Center for
>> the Arts
>>
>> >> back in June.  The connections
>>
>> >> >>>>> made there live well past the
>> event.
>>
>> >> >>>>> -- Oh, a city council member
>> and the
>>
>> >> mayor of Tempe spoke this last
>>
>> >> >>>>> time, though he was a bit
>> silly trying
>>
>> >> to be Tempe exclusive.  That
>>
>> >> >>>>> seems to be at least verbal
>> political
>>
>> >> support.
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> - The second ABLEConf on
>> FS/OSS is
>>
>> >> being planned for October and
>>
>> >> >>>>> should be better than last
>> year. (Go
>>
>> >> Hans and team!)
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> I'm not going to go on,
>> though I could
>>
>> >> point out several purely social
>>
>> >> >>>>> events like
>>
>> http://phoenixfridaynights.com/, it's east and
>> west
>>
>> >> valley
>>
>> >> >>>>> analogs, East Valley Thursday
>> Morning
>>
>> >> breakfasts, Tempe Geeks Lunch,
>>
>> >> >>>>> South Valley Geek Meet and
>> Eat and
>>
>> >> Gangplank's Brown Gag lunch
>>
>> >> >>>>> presentations every
>> Wednesday.
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> Now, having said all of that
>> "giddy
>>
>> >> blind optimism," I'd like to
>>
>> >> >>>>> understand how the above does
>> not
>>
>> >> address the efforts of the past or
>>
>> >> >>>>> provide improvement over past
>> efforts.
>>
>> >>  What are the real needs of the
>>
>> >> >>>>> community, if not some of the
>> above?
>>
>> >>  What would you suggest?  How can
>>
>> >> >>>>> PLUG be a part of it?
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> Alan
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:34
>> PM,
>>
>> >> Joshua Zeidner<>
>>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >>>>>>  Alan,
>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>>>    while I
>> appreciate
>> your post,
>>
>> >> and anyone who is making a sincere
>>
>> >> >>>>>> effort to build community
>> in
>>
>> >> Phoenix... be warned.  There are some
>>
>> >> >>>>>> small groups who
>> periodically
>>
>> >> spawn off new 'communities' every month
>>
>> >> >>>>>> or so.  Look closely
>> and you
>> see
>>
>> >> the same few people with reused
>>
>> >> >>>>>> marketing recipes.
>> Lots of
>> blog
>>
>> >> and not too much community I'm
>>
>> >> >>>>>> afraid.  Their
>> efforts amount
>> to
>>
>> >> some simple branding and putting up a
>>
>> >> >>>>>> blog.  While these
>> things are
>> not
>>
>> >> really particularily offensive to
>>
>> >> >>>>>> me, they do somewhat
>> detract from
>>
>> >> interest in the real needs of the
>>
>> >> >>>>>> community here.
>> Some of
>> these
>>
>> >> people are just outright idiotic and
>>
>> >> >>>>>> cannot deal with
>> existing
>>
>> >> structure and refuse to accept the history
>>
>> >> >>>>>> of efforts in the
>> past.  They
>>
>> >> lack any articulation of their goals and
>>
>> >> >>>>>> purpose.  Often
>> times they
>> have
>>
>> >> trouble organizing even small groups
>>
>> >> >>>>>> of 2 or 3.  Dont
>> forget we've
>> had
>>
>> >> a tech incubator here.  Lets not
>>
>> >> >>>>>> smack down sincere
>> criticism in
>>
>> >> favor of giddy blind optimism,
>>
>> >> >>>>>> remember you can't
>> improve without
>>
>> >> criticism.  I would take these
>>
>> >> >>>>>> people much more
>> seriously if they
>>
>> >> addressed the efforts of the past
>>
>> >> >>>>>> and perhaps suggested how
>> they are
>>
>> >> going to improve on them, or
>>
>> >> >>>>>> perhaps indicate what has
>> changed
>>
>> >> that will make them a success.
>>
>> >> >>>>>> Maybe seeking real
>> political
>>
>> >> support would gain some legitimacy.
>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>>>    on the
>> positive side,
>> I think
>>
>> >> Phoenix will attract a lot of
>>
>> >> >>>>>> technology business due
>> to its
>>
>> >> relative low cost and no doubt you will
>>
>> >> >>>>>> start to see community
>>
>> >> infrastructure grow.  We are seeing some
>> real
>>
>> >> >>>>>> urban development
>> happening in Phx
>>
>> >> metro which has me very excited.  I
>>
>> >> >>>>>> think when the
>> macroeconomic
>>
>> >> problems are sorted out we will see
>>
>> >> >>>>>> downtown Phx bloom.
>> Im
>> hoping
>>
>> >> that the average Arizonan gets involved
>>
>> >> >>>>>> in the political process
>> and make
>>
>> >> sure that the corruption stays out
>>
>> >> >>>>>> of city and state
>> politics.
>>
>> >>  Coming from NY, Im recognizing a lot of
>>
>> >> >>>>>> positive development
>> trends in Phx
>>
>> >> metro.
>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>>>  -jmz
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >>
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>>
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>> >> change your mail settings:
>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
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>>
>> >> >>>>>
>>
>> >> >>>>
>>
>> >> >>>
>>
>> >> >>
>>
>> >>
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