Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX

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Author: keith smith
Date:  
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX


I do!

------------------------
Keith Smith


--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Joshua Zeidner <> wrote:

> From: Joshua Zeidner <>
> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <>
> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 8:13 PM
>   and who enforces your
> contracts, Keith?
>
>   -jmz
>
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 8:12 PM, keith smith<>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Only problem is you have government in business.
> >
> > ------------------------
> > Keith Smith
> >
> >
> > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Lyle Tuttle <>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Lyle Tuttle <>
> >> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in
> PHX
> >> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <>
> >> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 7:58 PM
> >>
> >>
> >> The city of Surprise has moved into a new
> >> city hall complex,
> >> and are turning the old offices / building into a
> >> "start-up" or
> >> incubator for new or emerging businesses.
> >>
> >>
> >> lyle tuttle
> >>
> >>
> >> At 07:50 PM 8/1/2009, you wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sat, Aug 1,
> >> 2009 at 6:50 PM,
> >> keith smith<>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > I think what is really missing from this
> equation is
> >> mentoring and
> >> training.
> >>
> >>
> >>   what I would like to see is some real support
> from
> >> AZ government
> >> to
> >>
> >> help make tech companies feel welcome here. 
> This
> >> means:
> >>
> >>
> >>   1) making the valley a good place not only to
> build
> >> a company but
> >> to
> >>
> >> build a *career*.  this means buy in from both
> sides
> >> of the
> >> equation.
> >>
> >> I would like to see a bit more address at lower
> capital
> >> levels, but
> >>
> >> that may prove to be difficult.  It seems that
> most
> >> existing
> >> concepts
> >>
> >> are kind of stuck in the industrial model, where
> you build
> >> a factory
> >>
> >> in a place with low taxes and hire low wage
> workers, but
> >> technology
> >>
> >> requires high wage workers who demand a good
> thriving job
> >> market.
> >> The
> >>
> >> needs are quite different.  The biggest issue
> with
> >> starting a
> >> company
> >>
> >> out here is finding people.  Where are all the
> >> people?  in
> >> CA.
> >>
> >> because it has a good job market.  If we can
> outsource
> >> to India,
> >> we
> >>
> >> sure as hell can outsource to Arizona.
> >>
> >>
> >>   2) setting up low cost legal structure and as
> you
> >> say mentoring
> >> to
> >>
> >> really help stimulate technology development.
> >> We've seen (at
> >> least
> >>
> >> nominal) efforts in the past.  Why did they
> >> fail?  This means
> >> real and
> >>
> >> adequate assistance in bringing concepts to
> production and
> >> market.
> >> A
> >>
> >> small investment in this area will yield returns
> in tax
> >> base and
> >>
> >> property value by a factor of hundreds.  Arizona
> has
> >> the potential
> >> to
> >>
> >> pick up a lot of this commercial activity because
> >> California is
> >>
> >> currently set to become a tax strapped nightmare
> state to
> >> build your
> >>
> >> business.  If AZ fails to see the opportunity
> here, we
> >> will lose
> >> out
> >>
> >> big time.  Currently the budget proceedings are
> still
> >> in
> >> gridlock.
> >>
> >>
> >>   the mayor of Phoenix seems to have the right
> idea,
> >> he was
> >> suggesting
> >>
> >> recently a green technology center near Phx
> center.  I
> >> think thats
> >> the
> >>
> >> direction AZ needs to go.  -jmz
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > I like the idea that folks are getting
> together to
> >> network.
> >> This is a really cool idea.  Even for
> non-technical
> >> stuff like
> >> finding out how people deal with customers,
> contracting,
> >> book-keeping,
> >> ETC.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > ------------------------
> >>
> >> > Keith Smith
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Joshua Zeidner
> >> <>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >> From: Joshua Zeidner <>
> >>
> >> >> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff
> to do in
> >> PHX
> >>
> >> >> To: "Main PLUG discussion list"
> >> <>
> >>
> >> >> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 6:08 PM
> >>
> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:09 PM,
> >>
> >> >> Alan Dayley<>
> >>
> >> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> > Joshua,
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > I put all your replies together in
> one long
> >> document
> >>
> >> >> and reread them.
> >>
> >> >> > I am still confused a bit.
> >> Enlightenment via
> >> email
> >>
> >> >> rarely occurs.
> >>
> >> >> > However, I really want to understand
> your
> >> position in
> >>
> >> >> this discussion.
> >>
> >> >> >  Let me summarize what I understand
> from
> >> your
> >>
> >> >> replies.
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > ---[Start my paraphasing of your
> >> comments]---
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > - There is a small group or groups
> of people
> >> who keep
> >>
> >> >> spinning off
> >>
> >> >> > communities using tired marketing
> >> techniques.
> >> This
> >>
> >> >> results in blogs
> >>
> >> >> > but not true communities.
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > - Some of these people cannot deal
> with
> >> existing
> >>
> >> >> structure and the
> >>
> >> >> > efforts of the past.
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > - These weak attempts do not
> articulate goals
> >> or
> >>
> >> >> purpose well, if at all.
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > - We must honestly look at criticism
> to learn
> >> and
> >>
> >> >> improve.
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > - These weak people need to address
> the
> >> efforts of the
> >>
> >> >> past and
> >>
> >> >> > provide suggestions on how they can
> be
> >> improved upon.
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > - Getting political support will
> provide
> >> legitimacy to
> >>
> >> >> their efforts.
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > - Phoenix will attract technology
> businesses
> >> because
> >>
> >> >> of the relative
> >>
> >> >> > low cost and this will help improve
> things.
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > - You have first hand experiences of
> weak,
> >> marketing
> >>
> >> >> fronted,
> >>
> >> >> > community building efforts.
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > - Many 'entrepreneurs' have grand
> >> ideas but get
> >>
> >> >> nowhere with them
> >>
> >> >> > because they are not real
> businesses.
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > - People at a co-working location or
> coffee
> >> shop will
> >>
> >> >> not help you
> >>
> >> >> > with your business unless you pay
> them.
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > - Most people at co-working started
> their one
> >> person
> >>
> >> >> business after
> >>
> >> >> > being laid-off and are not serious
> about
> >> it.
> >> They
> >>
> >> >> are really just
> >>
> >> >> > looking for the next full time gig.
> >> This will get
> >> in
> >>
> >> >> your way if you
> >>
> >> >> > have real business work to do.
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > - We must look truthfully at this
> issue if we
> >> are to
> >>
> >> >> make progress.
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > - There are no serious incubators
> and
> >> entrepreneurial
> >>
> >> >> meetups in
> >>
> >> >> > Phoenix.  No announcements on VC
> funding
> >> of
> >> companies
> >>
> >> >> so it's not
> >>
> >> >> > really entrepreneurial growth.
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > ---[End my paraphrasing of your
> comments]---
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > I see validity in every one of
> these
> >> comments.  I
> >>
> >> >> also think many of
> >>
> >> >> > them can be balanced by the other
> point of
> >> view.
> >> I
> >>
> >> >> still have
> >>
> >> >> > questions, if I may ask, before I
> state too
> >> much of my
> >>
> >> >> own thinking.
> >>
> >> >> > I want to learn more about your
> thinking.
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > 1. What does "deal with existing
> >> structure"
> >> mean?
> >>
> >> >>  This confuses me,
> >>
> >> >> > not know what structure you are
> talking
> >> about.
> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >> >>   Many user groups have been formed
> and
> >> continue
> >> to
> >>
> >> >> exist... how is
> >>
> >> >> <groupX> different?  other than
> its led
> >> by
> >>
> >> >> person Y?  I mean dealing
> >>
> >> >> with some of these groups I feel like Im
> back to
> >> age 8
> >>
> >> >> trying to gain
> >>
> >> >> admittance into the neighborhood
> treehouse.
> >> Perhaps I
> >>
> >> >> should spend
> >>
> >> >> more time drinking beer with these
> people?
> >> Seeing the
> >>
> >> >> same small
> >>
> >> >> group churning out 'communities' is at
> >> first funny, then
> >>
> >> >> annoying.  I
> >>
> >> >> just see a real lack of serious intent,
> and unless
> >> that is
> >>
> >> >> noted
> >>
> >> >> publicly, it makes all of us look bad. 
> I
> >> really dont
> >>
> >> >> think Im being
> >>
> >> >> destructive or malicious here, Im
> pointing out
> >> some valid
> >>
> >> >> observations.
> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > 2. To what efforts of the past are
> you
> >> referring?
> >> I
> >>
> >> >> want to
> >>
> >> >> > understand the size and nature of
> efforts to
> >> creating
> >>
> >> >> a community that
> >>
> >> >> > you feel were legitimate but perhaps
> did not
> >> work as
> >>
> >> >> planned.
> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >> >>   I remember when I first came to AZ
> >> that there was
> >> an
> >>
> >> >> tech
> >>
> >> >> incubator...  what happened to it?
> >> Which
> >>
> >> >> political agents currently
> >>
> >> >> support technology development in the
> >> valley?  what do
> >>
> >> >> they think
> >>
> >> >> about your org?  these things are
> pretty
> >> basic...
> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > 3. What political support is
> needed?
> >> You mean
> >>
> >> >> government funding of
> >>
> >> >> > events or startups or just verbal
> support or
> >> what?
> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >> >>   I wouldn't expect funding, but it
> >> would be good
> >> to
> >>
> >> >> see some
> >>
> >> >> political buy in.  Lack of just supports
> my
> >> opinions,
> >>
> >> >> that its really
> >>
> >> >> as Lisa said, camouflage for poor
> organization.
> >>
> >> >> Without any good
> >>
> >> >> signposts, all this will produce are
> people who
> >> get jaded
> >>
> >> >> and
> >>
> >> >> disaffected with regards to this
> location.
> >> If you had
> >>
> >> >> something
> >>
> >> >> together I doubt that a good politician
> would turn
> >> you
> >>
> >> >> down.
> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > 4. Why is it wrong or a problem for
> someone
> >> who is
> >>
> >> >> laid-off to have
> >>
> >> >> > grand ideas, talk about them and
> they never
> >> come to
> >>
> >> >> be?
> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >> >>   Its not.  As I said, I don't
> >> find any of
> >> these
> >>
> >> >> things highly
> >>
> >> >> offensive- but like you I am free to
> express
> >> myself.
> >>
> >> >> Sorry if its not
> >>
> >> >> filled with abundant exaltations.
> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > 5. Is it not conceivable that people
> might
> >> help each
> >>
> >> >> other in business
> >>
> >> >> > efforts?  Isn't strengthening and
> >> creating such a
> >>
> >> >> culture a good idea
> >>
> >> >> > or should such a goal not be pursued
> because
> >> it is not
> >>
> >> >> practically
> >>
> >> >> > possible?
> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >> >>   sure.  good thread btw.
> >> -jmz
> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > Alan
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:20 PM,
> Joshua
> >> Zeidner<>
> >>
> >> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> >> another great one:
> >>
> >> >> >>
> >>
> >> >> >> "OK, my question stands. Where
> are
> >> the
> >> incubators,
> >>
> >> >> the "bootstrap"
> >>
> >> >> >> seminars, the serious
> entrepreneurial
> >> meetups in
> >>
> >> >> Phoenix??? (crickets
> >>
> >> >> >> chirping). Phoenix just ain't
> >> happening as a
> >>
> >> >> serious place where
> >>
> >> >> >> serious people are doing serious
> things.
> >> No one
> >>
> >> >> wants it badly enough
> >>
> >> >> >> here. This paper should be
> having at
> >> least one
> >>
> >> >> article a week on a new
> >>
> >> >> >> startup and the VC firm who
> funded it.
> >>
> >> >> Helloooo????? is anybody out
> >>
> >> >> >> there...."
> >>
> >> >> >>
> >>
> >> >> >> a better way to phrase this: we
> need to
> >> stop
> >>
> >> >> pretending these
> >>
> >> >> >> whimsical efforts churned out by
> local
> >>
> >> >> self-employed marketing experts
> >>
> >> >> >> are sufficient.  They are not.
> >> We should
> >> be
> >>
> >> >> asking the hard
> >>
> >> >> >> questions, not playing games.
> >>
> >> >> >>
> >>
> >> >> >> -jmz
> >>
> >> >> >>
> >>
> >> >> >>
> >>
> >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:04 PM,
> Joshua
> >>
> >> >> Zeidner<>
> >>
> >> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> >>>  another point, honestly
> reading
> >> through
> >> some
> >>
> >> >> of the criticisms on
> >>
> >> >> >>> azcentral and being of the
> cafe
> >> dwelling creed
> >>
> >> >> myself, I'd have to say
> >>
> >> >> >>> that many of those points
> are
> >> accurate.
> >> I've
> >>
> >> >> heard lots of
> >>
> >> >> >>> 'entrepreneurs' with big
> >> ideas around here who
> >>
> >> >> never get anywhere with
> >>
> >> >> >>> them.  Sorry, but a word
> press
> >> template
> >>
> >> >> doesn't make you an
> >>
> >> >> >>> entrepreneur.
> >>
> >> >> >>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>  "These are the same
> people
> >> you see
> >> at
> >>
> >> >> Starbucks, Boarders or any
> >>
> >> >> >>> other wi-fi hot spot, they
> are not
> >>
> >> >> entrepreneurs they are attention
> >>
> >> >> >>> (inappropriate term)."
> >>
> >> >> >>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>  "Many of the Co-Worker
> >> location
> >> founders
> >>
> >> >> tout other people to
> >>
> >> >> >>> collaborate with and who
> can
> >> "compensate
> >> for
> >>
> >> >> your deficiencies". Do
> >>
> >> >> >>> you really believe someone
> that you
> >> are not
> >>
> >> >> paying as an employee is
> >>
> >> >> >>> going to somehow compensate
> for your
> >>
> >> >> deficiencies and make your
> >>
> >> >> >>> business better? That kind
> of help
> >> doesn't
> >>
> >> >> come without a price."
> >>
> >> >> >>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>  oh so true...
> >>
> >> >> >>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>  "You are more likely to
> >> get a bunch
> >> of
> >>
> >> >> people chatting to you over
> >>
> >> >> >>> your "work" so you wont be
> >> concentrating
> >> as
> >>
> >> >> you should to focus on
> >>
> >> >> >>> your business. Most of these
> people
> >> started
> >>
> >> >> businesses after being
> >>
> >> >> >>> laid off. They are searching
> for a
> >> new job and
> >>
> >> >> they aren't really
> >>
> >> >> >>> serious about their
> >> "businesses" so how
> >> do you
> >>
> >> >> expect them to give you
> >>
> >> >> >>> valuable, serious advice.
> Are these
> >> the kind
> >>
> >> >> of people you need to
> >>
> >> >> >>> compensate for your
> deficiencies? A
> >> bunch of
> >>
> >> >> people half-as running
> >>
> >> >> >>> their "business" while
> >> searching for a
> >> real
> >>
> >> >> job and bothering you with
> >>
> >> >> >>> their expertise that got
> them laid
> >> off in the
> >>
> >> >> first place."
> >>
> >> >> >>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>  oh so so true...
> >>
> >> >> >>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>  I would be willing to bet
> the
> >> commenter
> >>
> >> >> above is an tried and true
> >>
> >> >> >>> successful entrepreneur.
> >> Perhaps the
> >> reason
> >>
> >> >> I am so skeptical is
> >>
> >> >> >>> because I know these kind of
> people
> >> so well.
> >>
> >> >> >>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>  sorry I really wish I
> could be
> >> more
> >>
> >> >> supportive... but :  truth is
> >>
> >> >> >>> the foundation of progress.
> >>
> >> >> >>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>  -jmz
> >>
> >> >> >>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>
> >>
> >> >> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:28
> PM,
> >> Joshua
> >>
> >> >> Zeidner<>
> >>
> >> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> >>>>  Alan,
> >>
> >> >> >>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>    Wish I had time
> >> to respond to
> >> all
> >>
> >> >> these points right now, not sure
> >>
> >> >> >>>> you read me the way I
> would
> >> prefer
> >>
> >> >> however.  Its not so grave a
> >>
> >> >> >>>> warning, just getting
> the word
> >> out on my
> >>
> >> >> first hand experiences.  Im
> >>
> >> >> >>>> just one of many- but
> hopefully
> >> an
> >>
> >> >> impartial observer and someone
> >>
> >> >> >>>> genuinely concerned for
> AZ.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>  all the best, jmz
> >>
> >> >> >>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at
> 3:12 PM,
> >> Alan
> >>
> >> >> Dayley<>
> >>
> >> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> Josh,
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> I feel warned.  And
> I
> >> don't
> >>
> >> >> understand the reason for such a strong
> warning.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> There are people in
> every
> >> industry,
> >>
> >> >> government or community who wish
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> to fleece their
> >> "community" for
> >> their
> >>
> >> >> own profit instead of mutual
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> benefit.  The trick
> is
> >> to find
> >> the
> >>
> >> >> positive people and ignore the
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> rest.  Apply the
> same
> >> filter with
> >>
> >> >> every event, group or blogger in the
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> lists and links I
> >> provided.  I
> >> don't
> >>
> >> >> expect bloggers or techies to be
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> any different, as if
> being
> >> techie
> >>
> >> >> makes one a saint.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> Some of those
> bloggers are
> >> purely
> >>
> >> >> commercial or completely neglected,
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> I'm sure.  Some of
> >> the groups or
> >>
> >> >> events or sites listed are lousy,
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> boring or poor
> marketing
> >> excuses to
> >>
> >> >> sell something.  Some are not out
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> to create community
> but to
> >> build a
> >>
> >> >> "kingdom" for their own benefit.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> They are the duds.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> Let's look at a few
> >> positives:
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> - Read the
> Gangplank
> >> Manifesto on
> >>
> >> >> their home page at
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> http://gangplankhq.com.  That looks like
> >>
> >> >> a great articulation of their
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> goals and purpose. 
> Ones
> >> I
> >> strongly
> >>
> >> >> support!
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> -- Read how the
> manifesto
> >> came to be
> >>
> >> >> on Derek's blog at
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> http://derekneighbors.com/2009/07/collaborative-writing-or-how-the-gangplank-manifesto-was-written/
> >>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> - Gangplank has
> hosted or is
> >> hosting:
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> -- MobiFest - a day
> long
> >> conference on
> >>
> >> >> developing for phones like
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> iPhone or Android
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> -- Gangplank Jr. - a
> 2-3 hour
> >> Saturday
> >>
> >> >> event for kids 5-15 to learn
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> programming
> concepts
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> -- Wordpress
> training classes
> >> for
> >>
> >> >> minimal cost or no-cost for non-profit
> orgs
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> -- Laid Off Camp - a
> day
> >> long
> >>
> >> >> conference on job searching and
> entreprenuership
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> -- Barcamp Pheonix -
> a day
> >> long
> >>
> >> >> conference on software development
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> -- TEDx night -
> Watch ted.com
> >> videos
> >>
> >> >> and discuss them
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> -- OpenPhoenix - a
> night of
> >> open mic
> >>
> >> >> music and entertainment
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> - The last
> >>
> >> http://desertcodecamp.com/ was held on June 13th and
> >>
> >> >> nearly
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> filled DeVry's
> Phoenix
> >> campus with
> >>
> >> >> developers talking about code or
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> making code.  Free
> lunch
> >> of pizza
> >> and
> >>
> >> >> sub sandwiches was provided too.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>  Put together by
> >> volunteers.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> - If you're into
> >> Microsoft based
> >>
> >> >> development tech, the people who
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> maintain the
> >> http://azgroups.com
> >> site do an annual all-day event at
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> venues like the
> Orphium
> >> Theater and at
> >>
> >> >> no cost to attendees.  Fine,
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> it's marketing for
> MS but
> >> it's put on
> >>
> >> >> by volunteers here in the valley
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> and a great way for
> people to
> >> learn
> >>
> >> >> about things that improve their
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> career skills.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> (
> >> http://www.componentart.com/BLOGS/milos/archive/2009/06/02/scott-guthrie-event-2009-phoenix-az.aspx
> >> )
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> - The local Ruby On
> Rails
> >> group has
> >>
> >> >> monthly meetings with around 30
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> regularly in
> attendance.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> - The Java group is
> also well
> >> attended
> >>
> >> >> every month.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> - The third
> >> http://podcampaz.com/
> >>  is coming up in November, put on
> >>
> >> >> by
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> voluteers at no
> cost
> >> (donation
> >>
> >> >> requested) to attendees.  Had about 350
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> people attend last
> year (if I
> >> recall)
> >>
> >> >> for two days of conference.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> - The
> >>
> >> http://azentrepreneurship.com/ conference
> will be in
> >>
> >> >> November
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> for the forth year.
> >> This one
> >> costs
> >>
> >> >> $100+ but should be as well
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> attended as last
> year with
> >> 200+
> >>
> >> >> people.  Funded and organized in part
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> by a local venture
> capital
> >> group.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> - The first
> >>
> >> http://ignitephoenix.com event was held a year ago
> >> with
> >>
> >> >> a
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> little over 100 in
> attendance
> >> and has
> >>
> >> >> grown to fill the 600 seat
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> Theather at Tempe
> Center for
> >> the Arts
> >>
> >> >> back in June.  The connections
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> made there live well
> past the
> >> event.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> -- Oh, a city
> council member
> >> and the
> >>
> >> >> mayor of Tempe spoke this last
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> time, though he was
> a bit
> >> silly trying
> >>
> >> >> to be Tempe exclusive.  That
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> seems to be at least
> verbal
> >> political
> >>
> >> >> support.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> - The second
> ABLEConf on
> >> FS/OSS is
> >>
> >> >> being planned for October and
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> should be better
> than last
> >> year. (Go
> >>
> >> >> Hans and team!)
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> I'm not going to go
> on,
> >> though I could
> >>
> >> >> point out several purely social
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> events like
> >>
> >> http://phoenixfridaynights.com/, it's
> east and
> >> west
> >>
> >> >> valley
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> analogs, East Valley
> Thursday
> >> Morning
> >>
> >> >> breakfasts, Tempe Geeks Lunch,
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> South Valley Geek
> Meet and
> >> Eat and
> >>
> >> >> Gangplank's Brown Gag lunch
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> presentations every
> >> Wednesday.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> Now, having said all
> of that
> >> "giddy
> >>
> >> >> blind optimism," I'd like to
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> understand how the
> above does
> >> not
> >>
> >> >> address the efforts of the past or
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> provide improvement
> over past
> >> efforts.
> >>
> >> >>  What are the real needs of the
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> community, if not
> some of the
> >> above?
> >>
> >> >>  What would you suggest?  How can
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> PLUG be a part of
> it?
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> Alan
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009
> at 1:34
> >> PM,
> >>
> >> >> Joshua Zeidner<>
> >>
> >> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>>  Alan,
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>>    while I
> >> appreciate
> >> your post,
> >>
> >> >> and anyone who is making a sincere
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> effort to build
> community
> >> in
> >>
> >> >> Phoenix... be warned.  There are some
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> small groups
> who
> >> periodically
> >>
> >> >> spawn off new 'communities' every month
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> or so.  Look
> closely
> >> and you
> >> see
> >>
> >> >> the same few people with reused
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> marketing
> recipes.
> >> Lots of
> >> blog
> >>
> >> >> and not too much community I'm
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> afraid.  Their
> >> efforts amount
> >> to
> >>
> >> >> some simple branding and putting up a
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> blog.  While
> these
> >> things are
> >> not
> >>
> >> >> really particularily offensive to
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> me, they do
> somewhat
> >> detract from
> >>
> >> >> interest in the real needs of the
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> community here.
> >> Some of
> >> these
> >>
> >> >> people are just outright idiotic and
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> cannot deal
> with
> >> existing
> >>
> >> >> structure and refuse to accept the
> history
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> of efforts in
> the
> >> past.  They
> >>
> >> >> lack any articulation of their goals and
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> purpose. 
> Often
> >> times they
> >> have
> >>
> >> >> trouble organizing even small groups
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> of 2 or 3. 
> Dont
> >> forget we've
> >> had
> >>
> >> >> a tech incubator here.  Lets not
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> smack down
> sincere
> >> criticism in
> >>
> >> >> favor of giddy blind optimism,
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> remember you
> can't
> >> improve without
> >>
> >> >> criticism.  I would take these
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> people much
> more
> >> seriously if they
> >>
> >> >> addressed the efforts of the past
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> and perhaps
> suggested how
> >> they are
> >>
> >> >> going to improve on them, or
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> perhaps indicate
> what has
> >> changed
> >>
> >> >> that will make them a success.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> Maybe seeking
> real
> >> political
> >>
> >> >> support would gain some legitimacy.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>>    on the
> >> positive side,
> >> I think
> >>
> >> >> Phoenix will attract a lot of
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> technology
> business due
> >> to its
> >>
> >> >> relative low cost and no doubt you will
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> start to see
> community
> >>
> >> >> infrastructure grow.  We are seeing
> some
> >> real
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> urban
> development
> >> happening in Phx
> >>
> >> >> metro which has me very excited.  I
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> think when the
> >> macroeconomic
> >>
> >> >> problems are sorted out we will see
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> downtown Phx
> bloom.
> >> Im
> >> hoping
> >>
> >> >> that the average Arizonan gets involved
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> in the political
> process
> >> and make
> >>
> >> >> sure that the corruption stays out
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> of city and
> state
> >> politics.
> >>
> >> >>  Coming from NY, Im recognizing a lot
> of
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>> positive
> development
> >> trends in Phx
> >>
> >> >> metro.
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>>  -jmz
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing
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> >>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>> To subscribe,
> unsubscribe, or
> >> to
> >>
> >> >> change your mail settings:
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> >>
> >> >> >>>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>>
> >>
> >> >> >>>
> >>
> >> >> >>
> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>
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> >>
> >> >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to
> change
> >> your mail
> >>
> >> >> settings:
> >>
> >> >> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >> >> >>
> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
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