Why must we flame? Where is the love? The community?
Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>
>
> On 8/29/07, *Alan Dayley* <alandd@consultpros.com
> <mailto:alandd@consultpros.com>> wrote:
>
> Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 8/29/07, *keith smith* <klsmith2020@yahoo.com
> <mailto:klsmith2020@yahoo.com>
> > <mailto:klsmith2020@yahoo.com <mailto:klsmith2020@yahoo.com> >>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Add PLUG reserves the right to suspend or remove any account
> not in
> > compliance.
> >
> >
> >
> > And for my reference, WHO is PLUG?
>
> Straight to the point. WE are PLUG.
>
> There is a Steering Committee with a chair person but, they direct the
> group in a "benevolent dictator" style, sort of... The committee does
> makes sure stuff happens but has no real force of control. There
> are no
> by-laws or hard rules for the committee to lean on or point at. PLUG
> members follow or don't or grumble or yell as they see fit.
>
> So, your point is taken. If anyone is reserving the right to ban
> someone, who has that right and what are the criteria? I don't know
> the
> answer to that question.
>
>
>
> Honestly, I've been through this with one group already here in
> Phoenix. Usually if something happens someone doesn't like, they evoke
> the hidden and mysterious powers of moderation. Behind this somewhat
> ridiculous fig-leaf is some callow sheepish dude who has the password to
> the listserv. Very funny stuff in my view.
>
> I can say this: without clear leadership, there will be no clear
> purpose. If the person who recently offered up his grandfatherly
> opinion of the whole thing feels he is in the position of leadership
> here, he should make that abundantly clear. Not because I am
> challenging that leadership, I would just like to know who is running
> the show if anyone.
>
> I am in touch with Jason and I want to make it clear that it was not
> my intention to smear him. I do not make any claims against his
> character. He has made job postings on here after our work engagement
> and I made no attempt to interfere with that. I asked for a simple
> thing, and my intention here was to help clear up some confusion. I
> will make a sincere attempt to reconcile our disputes.
>
> In a general, I have recently moved out of Phoenix, primarily because
> I found the work environment here quite lacking. I could tell you quite
> a number of stories of my experiences around here[1], but there is a
> sufficient trail of listserv activity to point to some of my
> experiences. I think that Phoenix is currently facing some serious
> challenges as a city... and there are going to be inevitable changes
> whether they are welcomed by old-timers or not. I am quite sure that
> recent activity in financial markets has hit a number of people on this
> list directly.
>
> To address Joseph S.'s comments, for a list or a business venue to
> function correctly, you have to support buyers AND sellers, employers
> AND employees. I know that a number of regular contributors are of the
> hobbyist temperament, and see these kinds of points to be irrelevant and
> annoying. Banning feedback on job ads may seem like a great way to
> attract employers, because they feel safer in making whatever claims
> they please. The problem is, that the actual value of the ads degrade,
> and developers start to take a somewhat non-committal attitude towards
> working with these parties[3]. What phoenix currently needs is some
> kind of reputable venue for IT contracting, and I've voiced these
> concerns before[2]. Silicon Valley (where I currently reside) is
> literally bulging at the seams with out-of-control cost scales and
> somewhat of a vacuum of lucrative ideas. There are people here who make
> $300K a year designing applications to scrape your address book from
> your gmail account. Phoenix /does/ have potential in that sense, but it
> lacks the legal and commercial infrastructure to support the kind of
> commercial activity found in Silicon Valley. This infrastructure was
> built by folks not unlike yourselves, who just have a basic fascination
> with technology and its possibilities and decided make the government
> work for them instead of against them.
>
> Alan, I appreciate your attitude here- I think you are looking out
> for whats best for all the participants here. thanks. jmz
>
>
>
>
> [1] there is one person on this list that I responded to a job ad, and
> his 'CTO' refused to give me his last name! this person later was
> recommended by someone else on this list!
>
> [2] there are key deficiencies in AZ law as compared to that of CA law.
> some of the more important aspects are employment law and NCAs.
>
> [3] 'no flakes' is perhaps the most common request in web development
> job postings.
>
>
>
>
> Better yet, I don't want to need to know the answer to that question.
>
> In the history of PLUG that I know, no one has ever been banned. Ever.
> I'd much rather continue as it has all these years. Self policing
> works and this group is very good at it.
>
> I, for one, would not want the power to ban anyone.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> --
> .0000. communication.
> .0001. development.
> .0010. strategy.
> .0100. appeal.
>
> JOSHUA M. ZEIDNER
> IT Consultant
>
> ( 602 ) 490 8006
> jjzeidner@gmail.com <mailto:jjzeidner@gmail.com>
>
>
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