Why must we flame? Where is the love? The community? Joshua Zeidner wrote: > > > On 8/29/07, *Alan Dayley* > wrote: > > Joshua Zeidner wrote: > > > > > > On 8/29/07, *keith smith* > > >> > wrote: > > > > > > Add PLUG reserves the right to suspend or remove any account > not in > > compliance. > > > > > > > > And for my reference, WHO is PLUG? > > Straight to the point. WE are PLUG. > > There is a Steering Committee with a chair person but, they direct the > group in a "benevolent dictator" style, sort of... The committee does > makes sure stuff happens but has no real force of control. There > are no > by-laws or hard rules for the committee to lean on or point at. PLUG > members follow or don't or grumble or yell as they see fit. > > So, your point is taken. If anyone is reserving the right to ban > someone, who has that right and what are the criteria? I don't know > the > answer to that question. > > > > Honestly, I've been through this with one group already here in > Phoenix. Usually if something happens someone doesn't like, they evoke > the hidden and mysterious powers of moderation. Behind this somewhat > ridiculous fig-leaf is some callow sheepish dude who has the password to > the listserv. Very funny stuff in my view. > > I can say this: without clear leadership, there will be no clear > purpose. If the person who recently offered up his grandfatherly > opinion of the whole thing feels he is in the position of leadership > here, he should make that abundantly clear. Not because I am > challenging that leadership, I would just like to know who is running > the show if anyone. > > I am in touch with Jason and I want to make it clear that it was not > my intention to smear him. I do not make any claims against his > character. He has made job postings on here after our work engagement > and I made no attempt to interfere with that. I asked for a simple > thing, and my intention here was to help clear up some confusion. I > will make a sincere attempt to reconcile our disputes. > > In a general, I have recently moved out of Phoenix, primarily because > I found the work environment here quite lacking. I could tell you quite > a number of stories of my experiences around here[1], but there is a > sufficient trail of listserv activity to point to some of my > experiences. I think that Phoenix is currently facing some serious > challenges as a city... and there are going to be inevitable changes > whether they are welcomed by old-timers or not. I am quite sure that > recent activity in financial markets has hit a number of people on this > list directly. > > To address Joseph S.'s comments, for a list or a business venue to > function correctly, you have to support buyers AND sellers, employers > AND employees. I know that a number of regular contributors are of the > hobbyist temperament, and see these kinds of points to be irrelevant and > annoying. Banning feedback on job ads may seem like a great way to > attract employers, because they feel safer in making whatever claims > they please. The problem is, that the actual value of the ads degrade, > and developers start to take a somewhat non-committal attitude towards > working with these parties[3]. What phoenix currently needs is some > kind of reputable venue for IT contracting, and I've voiced these > concerns before[2]. Silicon Valley (where I currently reside) is > literally bulging at the seams with out-of-control cost scales and > somewhat of a vacuum of lucrative ideas. There are people here who make > $300K a year designing applications to scrape your address book from > your gmail account. Phoenix /does/ have potential in that sense, but it > lacks the legal and commercial infrastructure to support the kind of > commercial activity found in Silicon Valley. This infrastructure was > built by folks not unlike yourselves, who just have a basic fascination > with technology and its possibilities and decided make the government > work for them instead of against them. > > Alan, I appreciate your attitude here- I think you are looking out > for whats best for all the participants here. thanks. jmz > > > > > [1] there is one person on this list that I responded to a job ad, and > his 'CTO' refused to give me his last name! this person later was > recommended by someone else on this list! > > [2] there are key deficiencies in AZ law as compared to that of CA law. > some of the more important aspects are employment law and NCAs. > > [3] 'no flakes' is perhaps the most common request in web development > job postings. > > > > > Better yet, I don't want to need to know the answer to that question. > > In the history of PLUG that I know, no one has ever been banned. Ever. > I'd much rather continue as it has all these years. Self policing > works and this group is very good at it. > > I, for one, would not want the power to ban anyone. > > Alan > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > -- > .0000. communication. > .0001. development. > .0010. strategy. > .0100. appeal. > > JOSHUA M. ZEIDNER > IT Consultant > > ( 602 ) 490 8006 > jjzeidner@gmail.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss