Re: PLUG netiquette (was trolls flamefest)

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Author: Joshua Zeidner
Date:  
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: PLUG netiquette (was trolls flamefest)
Hey Tuna,

    If you guys want a community, you've got to support conflict
resolution.  Not everybody sees things the same way, if they did, there
wouldn't be any reason to be typing stuff into my computer.  I do somewhat
miss the days when listservs were really helpful places to do business,
etc.  I know that part of the problem is that they have been recognized as a
business resource and as such are regularly exploited.


    What I've learned is you can't take the people out of the equation-
there is no perfect 'social technology', aside from the ones we've known all
along (ie democracy, etc.).  These problems with search engines are a
perfect example, why are we modifying our behavior because of *Google's
deficiency*?  Were going to accept information thats processed according to
an algorithm we don't even have access to?


    I hope that no one here questions my background and interest in Linux
and OSS.  People are coming from all sorts of perspectives here- I do read
most of the posts and respond to a small percentage.


-jmz




On 8/29/07, Tuna <> wrote:
>
> Why must we flame? Where is the love? The community?
>
> Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 8/29/07, *Alan Dayley* <
> > <mailto:alandd@consultpros.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >      >

> >      >
> >      > On 8/29/07, *keith smith* <
> >     <mailto:klsmith2020@yahoo.com>
> >      > <mailto:klsmith2020@yahoo.com <mailto:klsmith2020@yahoo.com> >>
> >     wrote:

> >      >

> >      >
> >      >     Add PLUG reserves the right to suspend or remove any account
> >     not in
> >      >     compliance.

> >      >

> >      >

> >      >
> >      >   And for my reference, WHO is PLUG?

> >
> >     Straight to the point.  WE are PLUG.

> >
> >     There is a Steering Committee with a chair person but, they direct
> the
> >     group in a "benevolent dictator" style, sort of...  The committee
> does
> >     makes sure stuff happens but has no real force of control.  There
> >     are no
> >     by-laws or hard rules for the committee to lean on or point
> at.  PLUG
> >     members follow or don't or grumble or yell as they see fit.

> >
> >     So, your point is taken.  If anyone is reserving the right to ban
> >     someone, who has that right and what are the criteria?  I don't know
> >     the
> >     answer to that question.

> >
> >
> >
> > Honestly, I've been through this with one group already here in
> > Phoenix. Usually if something happens someone doesn't like, they evoke
> > the hidden and mysterious powers of moderation. Behind this somewhat
> > ridiculous fig-leaf is some callow sheepish dude who has the password to
> > the listserv. Very funny stuff in my view.
> >
> > I can say this: without clear leadership, there will be no clear
> > purpose. If the person who recently offered up his grandfatherly
> > opinion of the whole thing feels he is in the position of leadership
> > here, he should make that abundantly clear. Not because I am
> > challenging that leadership, I would just like to know who is running
> > the show if anyone.
> >
> > I am in touch with Jason and I want to make it clear that it was not
> > my intention to smear him. I do not make any claims against his
> > character. He has made job postings on here after our work engagement
> > and I made no attempt to interfere with that. I asked for a simple
> > thing, and my intention here was to help clear up some confusion. I
> > will make a sincere attempt to reconcile our disputes.
> >
> > In a general, I have recently moved out of Phoenix, primarily because
> > I found the work environment here quite lacking. I could tell you quite
> > a number of stories of my experiences around here[1], but there is a
> > sufficient trail of listserv activity to point to some of my
> > experiences. I think that Phoenix is currently facing some serious
> > challenges as a city... and there are going to be inevitable changes
> > whether they are welcomed by old-timers or not. I am quite sure that
> > recent activity in financial markets has hit a number of people on this
> > list directly.
> >
> > To address Joseph S.'s comments, for a list or a business venue to
> > function correctly, you have to support buyers AND sellers, employers
> > AND employees. I know that a number of regular contributors are of the
> > hobbyist temperament, and see these kinds of points to be irrelevant and
> > annoying. Banning feedback on job ads may seem like a great way to
> > attract employers, because they feel safer in making whatever claims
> > they please. The problem is, that the actual value of the ads degrade,
> > and developers start to take a somewhat non-committal attitude towards
> > working with these parties[3]. What phoenix currently needs is some
> > kind of reputable venue for IT contracting, and I've voiced these
> > concerns before[2]. Silicon Valley (where I currently reside) is
> > literally bulging at the seams with out-of-control cost scales and
> > somewhat of a vacuum of lucrative ideas. There are people here who make
> > $300K a year designing applications to scrape your address book from
> > your gmail account. Phoenix /does/ have potential in that sense, but it
> > lacks the legal and commercial infrastructure to support the kind of
> > commercial activity found in Silicon Valley. This infrastructure was
> > built by folks not unlike yourselves, who just have a basic fascination
> > with technology and its possibilities and decided make the government
> > work for them instead of against them.
> >
> >    Alan, I appreciate your attitude here- I think you are looking out
> > for whats best for all the participants here.  thanks.  jmz

> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [1] there is one person on this list that I responded to a job ad, and
> > his 'CTO' refused to give me his last name! this person later was
> > recommended by someone else on this list!
> >
> > [2] there are key deficiencies in AZ law as compared to that of CA law.
> > some of the more important aspects are employment law and NCAs.
> >
> > [3] 'no flakes' is perhaps the most common request in web development
> > job postings.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     Better yet, I don't want to need to know the answer to that
> question.

> >
> >     In the history of PLUG that I know, no one has ever been
> banned.  Ever.
> >     I'd much rather continue as it has all these years.  Self policing
> >     works and this group is very good at it.

> >
> >     I, for one, would not want the power to ban anyone.

> >
> >     Alan

> >
> >
> >
> >     ---------------------------------------------------
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> >     <mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> >     To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> >     http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss

> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > .0000. communication.
> > .0001. development.
> > .0010. strategy.
> > .0100. appeal.
> >
> > JOSHUA M. ZEIDNER
> > IT Consultant
> >
> > ( 602 ) 490 8006
> > <mailto:jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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>



--
.0000. communication.
.0001. development.
.0010. strategy.
.0100. appeal.

JOSHUA M. ZEIDNER
IT Consultant

( 602 ) 490 8006

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