Re: PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 165, Issue 3

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Author: Stephen Partington
Date:  
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 165, Issue 3
just learning how to use the new commands and config files

100% Pebcak

On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 7:23 PM Herminio Hernandez Jr. <
> wrote:

> What are your networking issues?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 7, 2019, at 2:21 AM, Stephen Partington <>
> wrote:
>
> Right now Grub is about the only thing working right. i am having the
> weirdest time trying to learn how to do networking the arch way. their
> documentation has decidedly gotten worse.
>
> On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 7:16 PM Michael Butash <> wrote:
>
>> What sort of FS structure do you use for yours? Arch and it's grub
>> configuration is highly broken for me, and many other folks right now, so
>> I'm sure it's something particular to my build.
>>
>> I've been afraid to update my dekstop lately just in case same issues
>> there now, but there is little difference between them at this point I can
>> find that one works, and the other does not, other than a lack of raid.
>>
>> -mb
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 3:11 PM Stephen Partington <>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I had Nvidia/Intel working on a Lattitude 5580 with bumblebee working
>>> well. In the case of my specific AW it is a G-Sync enabled display, so
>>> there is no Mux chip to swap between intel and Nvidia graphics. Native
>>> screen and all physical connectors are connected directly to the nvidia
>>> GPU, and the Intel chip does not do much unless you have thunderbolt
>>> working. But it worked well with Ubuntu so i don't expect much with regards
>>> to Arch. Arch will likely have more behavior issues with Wifi.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 11:54 AM Eric Oyen <> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Speaking of BSD environments…
>>>>
>>>> Well, Theo DeRaadt still won’t make his OS accessible. In fact, he
>>>> expects someone like me to go through the process of coding the apps,
>>>> patching and finally submitting to the ports system (for lengthly review,
>>>> etc.). All I wanted was to have BrilTTY included as a possible startup
>>>> option on the installation disks for OpenBSD.
>>>>
>>>> Now, there is an accessibility project going over at NetBSD, but I
>>>> haven’t had a lot of time to download and try it out. The forums are still
>>>> abuzz with technical issues and the like and ORCA still would have to be
>>>> patched and ported in order to work on an X Desktop there. So, unless
>>>> things radically change, I am stuck with a few Linux Distros and not much
>>>> hope for a more secure OS anytime soon.
>>>>
>>>> If I had a ride up to the black hat convention in Las Vegas next time
>>>> Theo is there, I might meet with him in open forum and have him explain
>>>> before a very public audience why it is that many blind users like me are
>>>> left out of the picture on his OS. Perhaps it might spur him into action
>>>> and to doing the right thing. Or, it might cause him to dig in and never do
>>>> anything (I hope for the former, but expect the latter, if you know what I
>>>> mean). We blind users expect to be able to use technology and there really
>>>> is no longer any excuse not to make Operating systems accessible..
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, that’s my take on the BSD world. And yes, like you, I don’t
>>>> want to have to face breakages, moved items or removed items that I found
>>>> useful. You know how it is with engineers, they just love to change things!
>>>>
>>>> -Eric
>>>> From the central offices of the Technomage Guild, Technology for all
>>>> Dept.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 5, 2019, at 12:39 AM, Thomas Scott <>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've moved towards arch and even BSD in personal use over the past few
>>>> years away from ubuntu. I don't want massive changes, I want solid, slow
>>>> changes. Funny how when I first got into Linux a decade ago, I loved the
>>>> "cutting edge", now when I see something new, I'm more likely to yell at my
>>>> computer "You moved that WHERE?!".
>>>>
>>>> In the day (night) job, it's RH. As MB noted, when it comes to the
>>>> enterprise, it's still supreme. Especially with Openstack gaining as much
>>>> ground as it has, Canonical lags far behind RH and even Mirantis in
>>>> support. Kind of sad to see my old favorite dwindle so much.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 12:00 AM Eric Oyen <> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, from an accessibility standpoint, Ubbuntu is one of the better
>>>>> distros around. ORCA screen reader, BrlTTY, speak, emacsspeak and several
>>>>> others are available and even the initial setup is accessible. I haven’t
>>>>> tried this on arch yet and until I research it, I can’t give a qualified
>>>>> opinion on arch.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Eric
>>>>> From the Central Offices of the Technomage Guild, Dept of Research and
>>>>> Development.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 4, 2019, at 4:25 PM, Michael Butash <> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It's little things like that that make the distro to be honest. Don't
>>>>> piss me off, don't die catastrophically randomly, don't upgrade and leave
>>>>> me at some nebulous boot prompt. Ubuntu did that to me too many times,
>>>>> Arch has been downright gentile by comparison, particularly for as complex
>>>>> a setup as I have here.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm fairly particular about breaking down os partitions, /, /boot,
>>>>> /var, /var/log, /usr, /home, and anything else plugged in. I would always
>>>>> use 200mb for my /boot, then some point kernels got huge and couldn't store
>>>>> more than 3 on that. Leaving auto-upgrade on ubuntu for 6 months at a time
>>>>> would fill the boot drive and start failed upgrades annoyingly, so
>>>>> something like that in Fedora is appreciated. I've not trusted ubuntu
>>>>> auto-upgrades, or ubuntu much at all since.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I just throw /boot a gig, and typically about the same for EFI
>>>>> from secureboot nonsense, so it works out. Arch doesn't normally keep
>>>>> multiple kernels around, so not an issue here.
>>>>>
>>>>> I still have never liked RH-derivatives however, and still grimace
>>>>> using them after 20 years. I did however install cent7 not long ago on my
>>>>> network test rigs as the only distro that supported my 100gb nic drivers,
>>>>> and it didn't seem terrible to use these days. Might try it sometime, but
>>>>> so far Arch hasn't given me reason to ever leave it.
>>>>>
>>>>> -mb
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 3:39 PM Harold Hartley <>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s good to get useful info on arch and I agree about Ubuntu as I
>>>>>> also had problems with it.
>>>>>> I now run fedora and have no problems with at all. I find updates
>>>>>> pretty much everyday with bug fixes and new files being installed. I even
>>>>>> like how it installs the new kernel and removes the older kernel that’s 3
>>>>>> versions back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, at 14:47, Michael Butash wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Arch is mostly precompiled binaries if using standard pacman repos,
>>>>>> their standard package manager.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Installing other package managers like yaourt introduce community
>>>>>> repos, ala deb/ubuntu ppa repos, which may or may not just compile
>>>>>> something on the fly for you if no binary package available. I don't think
>>>>>> I've ever NOT found something I needed in pacman or yaourt repos under arch
>>>>>> that I've had to compile manually, and both binary or compiling on the fly
>>>>>> via yaourt have worked almost flawlessly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've run Arch on my desktop for at least 2 years now, and it's been
>>>>>> the best change I've made in a long while. Rolling upgrades are great, I've
>>>>>> not encountered one failed upgrade with arch, vs. like every fscking time
>>>>>> upgrading any ubuntu system that fails horribly, almost reliably, every
>>>>>> time. I've run into a few upgrade issues, usually with a conflicting 3rd
>>>>>> party package that has been replaced, but otherwise has worked flawlessly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That said, I can't make it work on my laptop to save my life, but I
>>>>>> think it's more a matter of current kernel, grub, systemd, and various bits
>>>>>> not playing nicely with my luks+lvm setup. If not requiring things like
>>>>>> encryption and logical volumes, it's probably pretty easy to walk-through,
>>>>>> but only for an advanced (or sadist newbie) user.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Arch has been great once booting and working, I have half a dozen
>>>>>> different DE's installed on here, and basically rotate between what one is
>>>>>> less broken each upgrade,. A fault, not of Arch's so much the individual
>>>>>> DE's that can't figure out high-resolution compositing, rotating between
>>>>>> sucking or not. I've been using Mate for a distinct lack of compositing,
>>>>>> which proves most stable. I just don't like the menu and a lack of
>>>>>> type-to-search feature in it...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've tried switching off my laptop Ubuntu install as with 18.04
>>>>>> upgrade, it locked me into Wayland, which simply does NOT work with any
>>>>>> other DE on it. I can't launch into KDE, Cinnamon, Mate, or anything else
>>>>>> on it, they just fail at login - only Gnome3 (Ubuntu Bastard-Edition)
>>>>>> works, with many, many problems that about make it infuriating to use. I've
>>>>>> not hated a DE so much in a long time, thanks Ubuntu. but stuck as the only
>>>>>> thing working on my laptop other than windoze my xps15 came with. I'll get
>>>>>> frisky and try Arch again soon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trick is finding a distro you like, your comfortable with, and
>>>>>> doesn't randomly break with every upgrade. Ubuntu is NOT the latter, expect
>>>>>> upgrades to fail you, this coming from someone living Ubuntu since 6.04.
>>>>>> Other distros, ymmv.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -mb
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 2:02 PM Harold Hartley <>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> > __
>>>>>> > I thought arch was just binary. Never knew they started having both.
>>>>>> > If arch is offering a binary system, isn’t that a closed system and
>>>>>> doesn’t that violate open source license. That is my question.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, at 13:58, Stephen Partington wrote:
>>>>>> >> Arch if i am correct is both. and like Gentoo you can build as you
>>>>>> install with the option of compile from source.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 1:40 PM Harold Hartley <
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >> > __
>>>>>> >> > The first part you said I couldn’t have said any better.
>>>>>> >> > Now isn’t arch a binary system which has their system files and
>>>>>> packages in binary form.
>>>>>> >> > That doesn’t leave much for fixing a problem on the system if
>>>>>> it’s binary files.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, at 13:27, Stephen Partington wrote:
>>>>>> >> >> Mostly it is just a personal preference. Sometimes it is
>>>>>> related to the window manager. Sometimes it is the package manager. There
>>>>>> are a number of reasons.
>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> I personally am torn between arch and Ubuntu (especially with
>>>>>> their lite install option) I like both for different reasons. I have been
>>>>>> considering moving to arch on my laptop.
>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, 12:04 PM Aaron Jones <>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >> >> > To entertain all the people who can't do Arch.
>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> > Le Troll Face.jpeg here
>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 11:29 AM Stephen Elliott <
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >> >> >> What is the purpose of all these different distros?
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> > On Mar 3, 2019, at 12:00 PM, <
>>>>>> > <
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > Send PLUG-discuss mailing list submissions to
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.phxlinux.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fplug-discuss&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C763b23d1df1b4e6336a108d6a00a7265%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636872364060787903&amp;sdata=qJghQhX9hWHCKzKKW9aBQO2zzPJ46052LA8aHlCqZm8%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>>> >> >> >> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>>>>>> specific
>>>>>> >> >> >> > than "Re: Contents of PLUG-discuss digest..."
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > Today's Topics:
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > 1. Re: Phoenix Linux (Matthew Crews)
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > Message: 1
>>>>>> >> >> >> > Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2019 15:15:37 +0100 (CET)
>>>>>> >> >> >> > From: Matthew Crews <>
>>>>>> >> >> >> > To:
>>>>>> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: Phoenix Linux
>>>>>> >> >> >> > Message-ID: <
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > On 3/1/19 6:18 PM, der.hans wrote:
>>>>>> >> >> >> >> moin moin,
>>>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> >> I have seen references to this, but for the first time
>>>>>> went and looked.
>>>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> >> Phoenix Linux - based on lubuntu 16.04.3 LTS
>>>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphoenixlinux.weebly.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C763b23d1df1b4e6336a108d6a00a7265%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636872364060787903&amp;sdata=gbDmb4Xv3bBpMO%2By4qtTA2sPhge2s82e39Mx3Daj%2F0M%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> >> Has anyone tried it?
>>>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> >> ciao,
>>>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> >> der.hans
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > I haven't tried it, but it looks like a hobby respin of
>>>>>> Lubuntu, but
>>>>>> >> >> >> > with none of the support (and lagging behind upstream by a
>>>>>> significant
>>>>>> >> >> >> > margin).
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > Hobby distros, especially hobby respins, are a tough sell
>>>>>> for me because
>>>>>> >> >> >> > of the lack of support. I'd normally prefer to stick to
>>>>>> upstream (in
>>>>>> >> >> >> > this case, Lubuntu).
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > The same person responsible for Phoenix also makes Feren
>>>>>> OS, which is
>>>>>> >> >> >> > based off of Linux Mint (and in the process of rebasing to
>>>>>> Ubuntu LTS).
>>>>>> >> >> >> > Feren is relatively well received and does have a support
>>>>>> structure, and
>>>>>> >> >> >> > looks fairly nice.
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > -------------- next part --------------
>>>>>> >> >> >> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>>> >> >> >> > Name: signature.asc
>>>>>> >> >> >> > Type: application/pgp-signature
>>>>>> >> >> >> > Size: 833 bytes
>>>>>> >> >> >> > Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
>>>>>> >> >> >> > URL: <
>>>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.phxlinux.org%2Fpipermail%2Fplug-discuss%2Fattachments%2F20190303%2F22561458%2Fattachment-0001.sig&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C763b23d1df1b4e6336a108d6a00a7265%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636872364060787903&amp;sdata=a1CDo73PR2qUDpuKqP2uHdFA5MkwgUnr1dtAkxfO2pE%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > ------------------------------
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > Subject: Digest Footer
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >> >> >> > PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> >> >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.phxlinux.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fplug-discuss&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C763b23d1df1b4e6336a108d6a00a7265%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636872364060797908&amp;sdata=YLMpxM2zMugze0XPXfgXobTT3pLOFEg6yvfy3bAz6IE%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > ------------------------------
>>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>>> >> >> >> > End of PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 165, Issue 3
>>>>>> >> >> >> > ********************************************
>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> >> >> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>>> >> >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>> >> >> >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> >> >> > PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>>> >> >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>> >> >> > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> >> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>>> >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>> >> >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > --
>>>>>> >> > Harold Hartley
>>>>>> >> > 17632 N. 5th place
>>>>>> >> > Phoenix, AZ 85022
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> >> > PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>>> >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>> >> > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>> >> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you
>>>>>> from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Stephen
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>>> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>> >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> > Harold Hartley
>>>>>> > 17632 N. 5th place
>>>>>> > Phoenix, AZ 85022
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> > PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>>> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>> > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Harold Hartley
>>>>>> 17632 N. 5th place
>>>>>> Phoenix, AZ 85022
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
>>> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
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>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
>
> --
> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>
> Stephen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
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>
> ---------------------------------------------------
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> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss



--
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
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