Re: PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 165, Issue 3

Top Page
This message is part of the following thread:
Mthe complete thread tree sorted by date
MMichael Butash at <-
MHerminio Hernandez Jr. at ->
Attachments:
Message as email
+ (text/plain)
+ (text/html)
+ (text/plain)
Delete this message
Reply to this message
Author: Stephen Partington
Date:  
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 165, Issue 3
Right now Grub is about the only thing working right. i am having the
weirdest time trying to learn how to do networking the arch way. their
documentation has decidedly gotten worse.

On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 7:16 PM Michael Butash <> wrote:

> What sort of FS structure do you use for yours? Arch and it's grub
> configuration is highly broken for me, and many other folks right now, so
> I'm sure it's something particular to my build.
>
> I've been afraid to update my dekstop lately just in case same issues
> there now, but there is little difference between them at this point I can
> find that one works, and the other does not, other than a lack of raid.
>
> -mb
>
> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 3:11 PM Stephen Partington <>
> wrote:
>
>> I had Nvidia/Intel working on a Lattitude 5580 with bumblebee working
>> well. In the case of my specific AW it is a G-Sync enabled display, so
>> there is no Mux chip to swap between intel and Nvidia graphics. Native
>> screen and all physical connectors are connected directly to the nvidia
>> GPU, and the Intel chip does not do much unless you have thunderbolt
>> working. But it worked well with Ubuntu so i don't expect much with regards
>> to Arch. Arch will likely have more behavior issues with Wifi.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 11:54 AM Eric Oyen <> wrote:
>>
>>> Speaking of BSD environments…
>>>
>>> Well, Theo DeRaadt still won’t make his OS accessible. In fact, he
>>> expects someone like me to go through the process of coding the apps,
>>> patching and finally submitting to the ports system (for lengthly review,
>>> etc.). All I wanted was to have BrilTTY included as a possible startup
>>> option on the installation disks for OpenBSD.
>>>
>>> Now, there is an accessibility project going over at NetBSD, but I
>>> haven’t had a lot of time to download and try it out. The forums are still
>>> abuzz with technical issues and the like and ORCA still would have to be
>>> patched and ported in order to work on an X Desktop there. So, unless
>>> things radically change, I am stuck with a few Linux Distros and not much
>>> hope for a more secure OS anytime soon.
>>>
>>> If I had a ride up to the black hat convention in Las Vegas next time
>>> Theo is there, I might meet with him in open forum and have him explain
>>> before a very public audience why it is that many blind users like me are
>>> left out of the picture on his OS. Perhaps it might spur him into action
>>> and to doing the right thing. Or, it might cause him to dig in and never do
>>> anything (I hope for the former, but expect the latter, if you know what I
>>> mean). We blind users expect to be able to use technology and there really
>>> is no longer any excuse not to make Operating systems accessible..
>>>
>>> Anyway, that’s my take on the BSD world. And yes, like you, I don’t want
>>> to have to face breakages, moved items or removed items that I found
>>> useful. You know how it is with engineers, they just love to change things!
>>>
>>> -Eric
>>> From the central offices of the Technomage Guild, Technology for all
>>> Dept.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 5, 2019, at 12:39 AM, Thomas Scott <>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've moved towards arch and even BSD in personal use over the past few
>>> years away from ubuntu. I don't want massive changes, I want solid, slow
>>> changes. Funny how when I first got into Linux a decade ago, I loved the
>>> "cutting edge", now when I see something new, I'm more likely to yell at my
>>> computer "You moved that WHERE?!".
>>>
>>> In the day (night) job, it's RH. As MB noted, when it comes to the
>>> enterprise, it's still supreme. Especially with Openstack gaining as much
>>> ground as it has, Canonical lags far behind RH and even Mirantis in
>>> support. Kind of sad to see my old favorite dwindle so much.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 12:00 AM Eric Oyen <> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, from an accessibility standpoint, Ubbuntu is one of the better
>>>> distros around. ORCA screen reader, BrlTTY, speak, emacsspeak and several
>>>> others are available and even the initial setup is accessible. I haven’t
>>>> tried this on arch yet and until I research it, I can’t give a qualified
>>>> opinion on arch.
>>>>
>>>> -Eric
>>>> From the Central Offices of the Technomage Guild, Dept of Research and
>>>> Development.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 4, 2019, at 4:25 PM, Michael Butash <> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It's little things like that that make the distro to be honest. Don't
>>>> piss me off, don't die catastrophically randomly, don't upgrade and leave
>>>> me at some nebulous boot prompt. Ubuntu did that to me too many times,
>>>> Arch has been downright gentile by comparison, particularly for as complex
>>>> a setup as I have here.
>>>>
>>>> I'm fairly particular about breaking down os partitions, /, /boot,
>>>> /var, /var/log, /usr, /home, and anything else plugged in. I would always
>>>> use 200mb for my /boot, then some point kernels got huge and couldn't store
>>>> more than 3 on that. Leaving auto-upgrade on ubuntu for 6 months at a time
>>>> would fill the boot drive and start failed upgrades annoyingly, so
>>>> something like that in Fedora is appreciated. I've not trusted ubuntu
>>>> auto-upgrades, or ubuntu much at all since.
>>>>
>>>> Now I just throw /boot a gig, and typically about the same for EFI from
>>>> secureboot nonsense, so it works out. Arch doesn't normally keep multiple
>>>> kernels around, so not an issue here.
>>>>
>>>> I still have never liked RH-derivatives however, and still grimace
>>>> using them after 20 years. I did however install cent7 not long ago on my
>>>> network test rigs as the only distro that supported my 100gb nic drivers,
>>>> and it didn't seem terrible to use these days. Might try it sometime, but
>>>> so far Arch hasn't given me reason to ever leave it.
>>>>
>>>> -mb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 3:39 PM Harold Hartley <>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It’s good to get useful info on arch and I agree about Ubuntu as I
>>>>> also had problems with it.
>>>>> I now run fedora and have no problems with at all. I find updates
>>>>> pretty much everyday with bug fixes and new files being installed. I even
>>>>> like how it installs the new kernel and removes the older kernel that’s 3
>>>>> versions back.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, at 14:47, Michael Butash wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Arch is mostly precompiled binaries if using standard pacman repos,
>>>>> their standard package manager.
>>>>>
>>>>> Installing other package managers like yaourt introduce community
>>>>> repos, ala deb/ubuntu ppa repos, which may or may not just compile
>>>>> something on the fly for you if no binary package available. I don't think
>>>>> I've ever NOT found something I needed in pacman or yaourt repos under arch
>>>>> that I've had to compile manually, and both binary or compiling on the fly
>>>>> via yaourt have worked almost flawlessly.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've run Arch on my desktop for at least 2 years now, and it's been
>>>>> the best change I've made in a long while. Rolling upgrades are great, I've
>>>>> not encountered one failed upgrade with arch, vs. like every fscking time
>>>>> upgrading any ubuntu system that fails horribly, almost reliably, every
>>>>> time. I've run into a few upgrade issues, usually with a conflicting 3rd
>>>>> party package that has been replaced, but otherwise has worked flawlessly.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, I can't make it work on my laptop to save my life, but I
>>>>> think it's more a matter of current kernel, grub, systemd, and various bits
>>>>> not playing nicely with my luks+lvm setup. If not requiring things like
>>>>> encryption and logical volumes, it's probably pretty easy to walk-through,
>>>>> but only for an advanced (or sadist newbie) user.
>>>>>
>>>>> Arch has been great once booting and working, I have half a dozen
>>>>> different DE's installed on here, and basically rotate between what one is
>>>>> less broken each upgrade,. A fault, not of Arch's so much the individual
>>>>> DE's that can't figure out high-resolution compositing, rotating between
>>>>> sucking or not. I've been using Mate for a distinct lack of compositing,
>>>>> which proves most stable. I just don't like the menu and a lack of
>>>>> type-to-search feature in it...
>>>>>
>>>>> I've tried switching off my laptop Ubuntu install as with 18.04
>>>>> upgrade, it locked me into Wayland, which simply does NOT work with any
>>>>> other DE on it. I can't launch into KDE, Cinnamon, Mate, or anything else
>>>>> on it, they just fail at login - only Gnome3 (Ubuntu Bastard-Edition)
>>>>> works, with many, many problems that about make it infuriating to use. I've
>>>>> not hated a DE so much in a long time, thanks Ubuntu. but stuck as the only
>>>>> thing working on my laptop other than windoze my xps15 came with. I'll get
>>>>> frisky and try Arch again soon.
>>>>>
>>>>> Trick is finding a distro you like, your comfortable with, and doesn't
>>>>> randomly break with every upgrade. Ubuntu is NOT the latter, expect
>>>>> upgrades to fail you, this coming from someone living Ubuntu since 6.04.
>>>>> Other distros, ymmv.
>>>>>
>>>>> -mb
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 2:02 PM Harold Hartley <>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > __
>>>>> > I thought arch was just binary. Never knew they started having both.
>>>>> > If arch is offering a binary system, isn’t that a closed system and
>>>>> doesn’t that violate open source license. That is my question.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, at 13:58, Stephen Partington wrote:
>>>>> >> Arch if i am correct is both. and like Gentoo you can build as you
>>>>> install with the option of compile from source.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 1:40 PM Harold Hartley <
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >> > __
>>>>> >> > The first part you said I couldn’t have said any better.
>>>>> >> > Now isn’t arch a binary system which has their system files and
>>>>> packages in binary form.
>>>>> >> > That doesn’t leave much for fixing a problem on the system if
>>>>> it’s binary files.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, at 13:27, Stephen Partington wrote:
>>>>> >> >> Mostly it is just a personal preference. Sometimes it is related
>>>>> to the window manager. Sometimes it is the package manager. There are a
>>>>> number of reasons.
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> I personally am torn between arch and Ubuntu (especially with
>>>>> their lite install option) I like both for different reasons. I have been
>>>>> considering moving to arch on my laptop.
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, 12:04 PM Aaron Jones <>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >> > To entertain all the people who can't do Arch.
>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> > Le Troll Face.jpeg here
>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 11:29 AM Stephen Elliott <
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >> >> >> What is the purpose of all these different distros?
>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >> > On Mar 3, 2019, at 12:00 PM, <
>>>>> > <
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > Send PLUG-discuss mailing list submissions to
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.phxlinux.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fplug-discuss&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C763b23d1df1b4e6336a108d6a00a7265%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636872364060787903&amp;sdata=qJghQhX9hWHCKzKKW9aBQO2zzPJ46052LA8aHlCqZm8%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>> >> >> >> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>>>>> specific
>>>>> >> >> >> > than "Re: Contents of PLUG-discuss digest..."
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > Today's Topics:
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > 1. Re: Phoenix Linux (Matthew Crews)
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > Message: 1
>>>>> >> >> >> > Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2019 15:15:37 +0100 (CET)
>>>>> >> >> >> > From: Matthew Crews <>
>>>>> >> >> >> > To:
>>>>> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: Phoenix Linux
>>>>> >> >> >> > Message-ID: <
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > On 3/1/19 6:18 PM, der.hans wrote:
>>>>> >> >> >> >> moin moin,
>>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >> >> I have seen references to this, but for the first time
>>>>> went and looked.
>>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >> >> Phoenix Linux - based on lubuntu 16.04.3 LTS
>>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphoenixlinux.weebly.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C763b23d1df1b4e6336a108d6a00a7265%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636872364060787903&amp;sdata=gbDmb4Xv3bBpMO%2By4qtTA2sPhge2s82e39Mx3Daj%2F0M%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >> >> Has anyone tried it?
>>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >> >> ciao,
>>>>> >> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >> >> der.hans
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > I haven't tried it, but it looks like a hobby respin of
>>>>> Lubuntu, but
>>>>> >> >> >> > with none of the support (and lagging behind upstream by a
>>>>> significant
>>>>> >> >> >> > margin).
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > Hobby distros, especially hobby respins, are a tough sell
>>>>> for me because
>>>>> >> >> >> > of the lack of support. I'd normally prefer to stick to
>>>>> upstream (in
>>>>> >> >> >> > this case, Lubuntu).
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > The same person responsible for Phoenix also makes Feren
>>>>> OS, which is
>>>>> >> >> >> > based off of Linux Mint (and in the process of rebasing to
>>>>> Ubuntu LTS).
>>>>> >> >> >> > Feren is relatively well received and does have a support
>>>>> structure, and
>>>>> >> >> >> > looks fairly nice.
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> >> >> >> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> >> >> >> > Name: signature.asc
>>>>> >> >> >> > Type: application/pgp-signature
>>>>> >> >> >> > Size: 833 bytes
>>>>> >> >> >> > Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
>>>>> >> >> >> > URL: <
>>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.phxlinux.org%2Fpipermail%2Fplug-discuss%2Fattachments%2F20190303%2F22561458%2Fattachment-0001.sig&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C763b23d1df1b4e6336a108d6a00a7265%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636872364060787903&amp;sdata=a1CDo73PR2qUDpuKqP2uHdFA5MkwgUnr1dtAkxfO2pE%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > ------------------------------
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > Subject: Digest Footer
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> >> >> > PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>> >> >> >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.phxlinux.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fplug-discuss&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C763b23d1df1b4e6336a108d6a00a7265%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636872364060797908&amp;sdata=YLMpxM2zMugze0XPXfgXobTT3pLOFEg6yvfy3bAz6IE%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > ------------------------------
>>>>> >> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> >> > End of PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 165, Issue 3
>>>>> >> >> >> > ********************************************
>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >> >> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>> >> >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>> >> >> >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >> >> > PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>> >> >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>> >> >> > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>> >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>> >> >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > --
>>>>> >> > Harold Hartley
>>>>> >> > 17632 N. 5th place
>>>>> >> > Phoenix, AZ 85022
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >> > PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>> >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>> >> > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> --
>>>>> >> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you
>>>>> from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Stephen
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>> >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > Harold Hartley
>>>>> > 17632 N. 5th place
>>>>> > Phoenix, AZ 85022
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>> > PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>> > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Harold Hartley
>>>>> 17632 N. 5th place
>>>>> Phoenix, AZ 85022
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
>> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss



--
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.

Stephen
---------------------------------------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list -
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
This message was posted to the following mailing lists:
Plug Discuss
Mailing List Info | Nearby Messages		<-Re: PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 165, Issue 3Re: PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 165, Issue 3->
Some Mailing List Archive administrated by UnconfiguredLurker (version 2.3)