Right now Grub is about the only thing working right. i am having the weirdest time trying to learn how to do networking the arch way. their documentation has decidedly gotten worse. On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 7:16 PM Michael Butash wrote: > What sort of FS structure do you use for yours? Arch and it's grub > configuration is highly broken for me, and many other folks right now, so > I'm sure it's something particular to my build. > > I've been afraid to update my dekstop lately just in case same issues > there now, but there is little difference between them at this point I can > find that one works, and the other does not, other than a lack of raid. > > -mb > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 3:11 PM Stephen Partington > wrote: > >> I had Nvidia/Intel working on a Lattitude 5580 with bumblebee working >> well. In the case of my specific AW it is a G-Sync enabled display, so >> there is no Mux chip to swap between intel and Nvidia graphics. Native >> screen and all physical connectors are connected directly to the nvidia >> GPU, and the Intel chip does not do much unless you have thunderbolt >> working. But it worked well with Ubuntu so i don't expect much with regards >> to Arch. Arch will likely have more behavior issues with Wifi. >> >> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 11:54 AM Eric Oyen wrote: >> >>> Speaking of BSD environments… >>> >>> Well, Theo DeRaadt still won’t make his OS accessible. In fact, he >>> expects someone like me to go through the process of coding the apps, >>> patching and finally submitting to the ports system (for lengthly review, >>> etc.). All I wanted was to have BrilTTY included as a possible startup >>> option on the installation disks for OpenBSD. >>> >>> Now, there is an accessibility project going over at NetBSD, but I >>> haven’t had a lot of time to download and try it out. The forums are still >>> abuzz with technical issues and the like and ORCA still would have to be >>> patched and ported in order to work on an X Desktop there. So, unless >>> things radically change, I am stuck with a few Linux Distros and not much >>> hope for a more secure OS anytime soon. >>> >>> If I had a ride up to the black hat convention in Las Vegas next time >>> Theo is there, I might meet with him in open forum and have him explain >>> before a very public audience why it is that many blind users like me are >>> left out of the picture on his OS. Perhaps it might spur him into action >>> and to doing the right thing. Or, it might cause him to dig in and never do >>> anything (I hope for the former, but expect the latter, if you know what I >>> mean). We blind users expect to be able to use technology and there really >>> is no longer any excuse not to make Operating systems accessible.. >>> >>> Anyway, that’s my take on the BSD world. And yes, like you, I don’t want >>> to have to face breakages, moved items or removed items that I found >>> useful. You know how it is with engineers, they just love to change things! >>> >>> -Eric >>> From the central offices of the Technomage Guild, Technology for all >>> Dept. >>> >>> >>> On Mar 5, 2019, at 12:39 AM, Thomas Scott >>> wrote: >>> >>> I've moved towards arch and even BSD in personal use over the past few >>> years away from ubuntu. I don't want massive changes, I want solid, slow >>> changes. Funny how when I first got into Linux a decade ago, I loved the >>> "cutting edge", now when I see something new, I'm more likely to yell at my >>> computer "You moved that WHERE?!". >>> >>> In the day (night) job, it's RH. As MB noted, when it comes to the >>> enterprise, it's still supreme. Especially with Openstack gaining as much >>> ground as it has, Canonical lags far behind RH and even Mirantis in >>> support. Kind of sad to see my old favorite dwindle so much. >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 12:00 AM Eric Oyen wrote: >>> >>>> Well, from an accessibility standpoint, Ubbuntu is one of the better >>>> distros around. ORCA screen reader, BrlTTY, speak, emacsspeak and several >>>> others are available and even the initial setup is accessible. I haven’t >>>> tried this on arch yet and until I research it, I can’t give a qualified >>>> opinion on arch. >>>> >>>> -Eric >>>> From the Central Offices of the Technomage Guild, Dept of Research and >>>> Development. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 4, 2019, at 4:25 PM, Michael Butash wrote: >>>> >>>> It's little things like that that make the distro to be honest. Don't >>>> piss me off, don't die catastrophically randomly, don't upgrade and leave >>>> me at some nebulous boot prompt. Ubuntu did that to me too many times, >>>> Arch has been downright gentile by comparison, particularly for as complex >>>> a setup as I have here. >>>> >>>> I'm fairly particular about breaking down os partitions, /, /boot, >>>> /var, /var/log, /usr, /home, and anything else plugged in. I would always >>>> use 200mb for my /boot, then some point kernels got huge and couldn't store >>>> more than 3 on that. Leaving auto-upgrade on ubuntu for 6 months at a time >>>> would fill the boot drive and start failed upgrades annoyingly, so >>>> something like that in Fedora is appreciated. I've not trusted ubuntu >>>> auto-upgrades, or ubuntu much at all since. >>>> >>>> Now I just throw /boot a gig, and typically about the same for EFI from >>>> secureboot nonsense, so it works out. Arch doesn't normally keep multiple >>>> kernels around, so not an issue here. >>>> >>>> I still have never liked RH-derivatives however, and still grimace >>>> using them after 20 years. I did however install cent7 not long ago on my >>>> network test rigs as the only distro that supported my 100gb nic drivers, >>>> and it didn't seem terrible to use these days. Might try it sometime, but >>>> so far Arch hasn't given me reason to ever leave it. >>>> >>>> -mb >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 3:39 PM Harold Hartley >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> It’s good to get useful info on arch and I agree about Ubuntu as I >>>>> also had problems with it. >>>>> I now run fedora and have no problems with at all. I find updates >>>>> pretty much everyday with bug fixes and new files being installed. I even >>>>> like how it installs the new kernel and removes the older kernel that’s 3 >>>>> versions back. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, at 14:47, Michael Butash wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Arch is mostly precompiled binaries if using standard pacman repos, >>>>> their standard package manager. >>>>> >>>>> Installing other package managers like yaourt introduce community >>>>> repos, ala deb/ubuntu ppa repos, which may or may not just compile >>>>> something on the fly for you if no binary package available. I don't think >>>>> I've ever NOT found something I needed in pacman or yaourt repos under arch >>>>> that I've had to compile manually, and both binary or compiling on the fly >>>>> via yaourt have worked almost flawlessly. >>>>> >>>>> I've run Arch on my desktop for at least 2 years now, and it's been >>>>> the best change I've made in a long while. Rolling upgrades are great, I've >>>>> not encountered one failed upgrade with arch, vs. like every fscking time >>>>> upgrading any ubuntu system that fails horribly, almost reliably, every >>>>> time. I've run into a few upgrade issues, usually with a conflicting 3rd >>>>> party package that has been replaced, but otherwise has worked flawlessly. >>>>> >>>>> That said, I can't make it work on my laptop to save my life, but I >>>>> think it's more a matter of current kernel, grub, systemd, and various bits >>>>> not playing nicely with my luks+lvm setup. If not requiring things like >>>>> encryption and logical volumes, it's probably pretty easy to walk-through, >>>>> but only for an advanced (or sadist newbie) user. >>>>> >>>>> Arch has been great once booting and working, I have half a dozen >>>>> different DE's installed on here, and basically rotate between what one is >>>>> less broken each upgrade,. A fault, not of Arch's so much the individual >>>>> DE's that can't figure out high-resolution compositing, rotating between >>>>> sucking or not. I've been using Mate for a distinct lack of compositing, >>>>> which proves most stable. I just don't like the menu and a lack of >>>>> type-to-search feature in it... >>>>> >>>>> I've tried switching off my laptop Ubuntu install as with 18.04 >>>>> upgrade, it locked me into Wayland, which simply does NOT work with any >>>>> other DE on it. I can't launch into KDE, Cinnamon, Mate, or anything else >>>>> on it, they just fail at login - only Gnome3 (Ubuntu Bastard-Edition) >>>>> works, with many, many problems that about make it infuriating to use. I've >>>>> not hated a DE so much in a long time, thanks Ubuntu. but stuck as the only >>>>> thing working on my laptop other than windoze my xps15 came with. I'll get >>>>> frisky and try Arch again soon. >>>>> >>>>> Trick is finding a distro you like, your comfortable with, and doesn't >>>>> randomly break with every upgrade. Ubuntu is NOT the latter, expect >>>>> upgrades to fail you, this coming from someone living Ubuntu since 6.04. >>>>> Other distros, ymmv. >>>>> >>>>> -mb >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 2:02 PM Harold Hartley >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > __ >>>>> > I thought arch was just binary. Never knew they started having both. >>>>> > If arch is offering a binary system, isn’t that a closed system and >>>>> doesn’t that violate open source license. That is my question. >>>>> > >>>>> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, at 13:58, Stephen Partington wrote: >>>>> >> Arch if i am correct is both. and like Gentoo you can build as you >>>>> install with the option of compile from source. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 1:40 PM Harold Hartley < >>>>> wheelie207@ownmail.net> wrote: >>>>> >> > __ >>>>> >> > The first part you said I couldn’t have said any better. >>>>> >> > Now isn’t arch a binary system which has their system files and >>>>> packages in binary form. >>>>> >> > That doesn’t leave much for fixing a problem on the system if >>>>> it’s binary files. >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, at 13:27, Stephen Partington wrote: >>>>> >> >> Mostly it is just a personal preference. Sometimes it is related >>>>> to the window manager. Sometimes it is the package manager. There are a >>>>> number of reasons. >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> I personally am torn between arch and Ubuntu (especially with >>>>> their lite install option) I like both for different reasons. I have been >>>>> considering moving to arch on my laptop. >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019, 12:04 PM Aaron Jones >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >> > To entertain all the people who can't do Arch. >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> > Le Troll Face.jpeg here >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 11:29 AM Stephen Elliott < >>>>> tnflyfisher@live.com> wrote: >>>>> >> >> >> What is the purpose of all these different distros? >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> > On Mar 3, 2019, at 12:00 PM, < >>>>> plug-discuss-request@lists.phxlinux.org> < >>>>> plug-discuss-request@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > Send PLUG-discuss mailing list submissions to >>>>> >> >> >> > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.phxlinux.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fplug-discuss&data=02%7C01%7C%7C763b23d1df1b4e6336a108d6a00a7265%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636872364060787903&sdata=qJghQhX9hWHCKzKKW9aBQO2zzPJ46052LA8aHlCqZm8%3D&reserved=0 >>>>> >> >> >> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>> >> >> >> > plug-discuss-request@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>> >> >> >> > plug-discuss-owner@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more >>>>> specific >>>>> >> >> >> > than "Re: Contents of PLUG-discuss digest..." >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > Today's Topics: >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > 1. Re: Phoenix Linux (Matthew Crews) >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > Message: 1 >>>>> >> >> >> > Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2019 15:15:37 +0100 (CET) >>>>> >> >> >> > From: Matthew Crews >>>>> >> >> >> > To: plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: Phoenix Linux >>>>> >> >> >> > Message-ID: < >>>>> c07a8f64-f2ad-bc77-5bcd-1227c27d2d52@mattcrews.com> >>>>> >> >> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > On 3/1/19 6:18 PM, der.hans wrote: >>>>> >> >> >> >> moin moin, >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> I have seen references to this, but for the first time >>>>> went and looked. >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> Phoenix Linux - based on lubuntu 16.04.3 LTS >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphoenixlinux.weebly.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C763b23d1df1b4e6336a108d6a00a7265%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636872364060787903&sdata=gbDmb4Xv3bBpMO%2By4qtTA2sPhge2s82e39Mx3Daj%2F0M%3D&reserved=0 >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> Has anyone tried it? >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> ciao, >>>>> >> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> der.hans >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > I haven't tried it, but it looks like a hobby respin of >>>>> Lubuntu, but >>>>> >> >> >> > with none of the support (and lagging behind upstream by a >>>>> significant >>>>> >> >> >> > margin). >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > Hobby distros, especially hobby respins, are a tough sell >>>>> for me because >>>>> >> >> >> > of the lack of support. I'd normally prefer to stick to >>>>> upstream (in >>>>> >> >> >> > this case, Lubuntu). >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > The same person responsible for Phoenix also makes Feren >>>>> OS, which is >>>>> >> >> >> > based off of Linux Mint (and in the process of rebasing to >>>>> Ubuntu LTS). >>>>> >> >> >> > Feren is relatively well received and does have a support >>>>> structure, and >>>>> >> >> >> > looks fairly nice. >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- >>>>> >> >> >> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> >> >> >> > Name: signature.asc >>>>> >> >> >> > Type: application/pgp-signature >>>>> >> >> >> > Size: 833 bytes >>>>> >> >> >> > Desc: OpenPGP digital signature >>>>> >> >> >> > URL: < >>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.phxlinux.org%2Fpipermail%2Fplug-discuss%2Fattachments%2F20190303%2F22561458%2Fattachment-0001.sig&data=02%7C01%7C%7C763b23d1df1b4e6336a108d6a00a7265%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636872364060787903&sdata=a1CDo73PR2qUDpuKqP2uHdFA5MkwgUnr1dtAkxfO2pE%3D&reserved=0 >>>>> > >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > ------------------------------ >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > Subject: Digest Footer >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> >> >> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> >> >> >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.phxlinux.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fplug-discuss&data=02%7C01%7C%7C763b23d1df1b4e6336a108d6a00a7265%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636872364060797908&sdata=YLMpxM2zMugze0XPXfgXobTT3pLOFEg6yvfy3bAz6IE%3D&reserved=0 >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > ------------------------------ >>>>> >> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> >> > End of PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 165, Issue 3 >>>>> >> >> >> > ******************************************** >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >> >> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> >> >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> >> >> >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >> >> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> >> >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> >> >> > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> >> >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > -- >>>>> >> > Harold Hartley >>>>> >> > 17632 N. 5th place >>>>> >> > Phoenix, AZ 85022 >>>>> >> > wheelie207@ownmail.net >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> >> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> >> > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -- >>>>> >> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you >>>>> from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Stephen >>>>> >> >>>>> >> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Harold Hartley >>>>> > 17632 N. 5th place >>>>> > Phoenix, AZ 85022 >>>>> > wheelie207@ownmail.net >>>>> > >>>>> > --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Harold Hartley >>>>> 17632 N. 5th place >>>>> Phoenix, AZ 85022 >>>>> wheelie207@ownmail.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >> >> -- >> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from >> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. >> >> Stephen >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen