<scroll>
On 2024-07-02 19:05, George Toft via PLUG-discuss wrote:
> Okay, I now come begging for more information on why RH thinks sudo is
> bad. But first a little background...
>
> Where I work, the first thing we do is remove sudo and replace it with
> a shell script that calls our centralized Privileged Access Management
> (PAM) system (not naming vendor). The use of sudo requires and
> exception and review and is not permanent. So I'm very versed on the
> principles and implementation of PAM. Last year our Staff Architect
> asked me to compare and contrast sudo against <unnamed product>.
> Side-by-side, feature-by-feature, I did so, based on our POC's on Red
> Hat Identity Manager (IdM), which uses sudo, and locally engineered
> solutions.
>
> I personally detest sudo because it's like chmod 777 * - makes
> everything work so much better, and software vendors can just drop in
> their own sudo rules in /etc/sudoers.d/ and make magic happen without
> you ever knowing what happened. Several times we've had to convert some
> vendor's sudo rules to our own system's rules, and I ask the vendor
> "Why do you have this rule?" Their answer: "We don't know." OFFS :(
>
> As far as sudo goes, it is included in the Center for Internet
> Security's (CIS) Benchmarks, which is the embodiment of the information
> security industry's best practices. I did some work for them for a
> couple years, and every change (add/mod/delete) required consensus
> approval from 80 organizations around the world, including thee letter
> agencies in the US and abroad. Many/most auditors expect financial
> institutions to follow this guide, or explain convincingly why not. So
> every six months, we get to say: "We don't use sudo. Instead, we do
> this." And then we get to do live demos of timed privileged access.
> Haven't had a follow-on question in the last 8 years.
>
---->>>
> (OT: I cringe at referring to CIS because of their collusion with the
> Arizona Secretary of State and the Department of Homeland Security to
> suppress people's First Amendment Right to Free Speech. Proof is in the
> Elon Musk Twitter Dump. I do not have a copy of the email on my
> computer. I generally don't tell people I did work for them - it's so
> embarrassing. Effing Ratbastards.)
So tell us more, please.
>
> So... back to the original question, as I was not able to find anything
> saying Red Hat discourages sudo, nor was my favorite AI. Please toss me
> a cookie...
>
> Regards,
>
> George Toft
>
> On 6/26/2024 12:23 PM, Rusty Carruth via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>> Actually, I'd like to start a bit of a discussion on this.
>>
>>
>> First, I know that for some reason RedHat seems to think that sudo is
>> bad/insecure.
>>
>> I'd like to know the logic there, as I think the argument FOR using
>> sudo is MUCH stronger than any argument I've heard (which, admittedly,
>> is pretty close to zero) AGAINST it. Here's my thinking:
>>
>> Allowing users to become root via sudo gives you:
>>
>> - VERY fine control over what programs a user can use as root
>>
>> - The ability to remove admin privs (ability to run as root) from an
>> individual WITHOUT having to change root password everywhere.
>>
>> Now, remember, RH is supposedly 'corporate friendly'. As a
>> corporation, that 2nd feature is well worth the price of admission,
>> PLUS I can only allow certain admins to run certain programs? Very
>> nice.
>>
>> So, for example, at my last place I allowed the 'tester' user to run
>> fdisk as root, because they needed to partition the disk under test.
>> In my case, and since the network that we ran on was totally isolated
>> from the corporate network, I let fdisk be run without needing a
>> password. Oh, and if they messed up and fdisk'ed the boot partition,
>> it was no big deal - I could recreate the machine from scratch (minus
>> whatever data hadn't been copied off yet - which would only be their
>> most recent run), in 10 minutes (which was about 2 minutes of my time,
>> and 8 minutes of scripted 'dd' ;-) However, if the test user wanted
>> to become root using su, they had to enter the test user password.
>>
>> So, back to the original question - setting sudo to not require a
>> password. We should have asked, what program do you want to run as
>> root without requiring a password? How secure is your system? What
>> else do you use it for? Who has access? etc, etc, etc.
>>
>> There's one other minor objection I have to the 'zero defense'
>> statement below - the malicious thing you downloaded (and, I assume
>> ran) has to be written to USE sudo in its attempt to break in, I
>> believe, or it wouldn't matter HOW open your sudo was. (simply saying
>> 'su - myscript' won't do it).
>>
>> And, if you're truly paranoid about stuff you download, you should:
>>
>> 1 - NEVER download something you don't have an excellent reason to
>> believe is 'safe', and ALWAYS make sure you actually downloaded it
>> from where you thought you did.
>>
>> 2 - For the TRULY paranoid, have a machine you use to download and
>> test software on, which you can totally disconnect from your network
>> (not JUST the internet), and which has NO confidential info, and which
>> you can erase and rebuild without caring. Run the downloaded stuff
>> there, for a long time, until you're pretty sure it won't bite you.
>>
>> 3 - For the REALLY REALLY paranoid, don't download anything from
>> anywhere, disconnect from the internet permanently, get high-tech
>> locks for your doors, and wrap your house in a faraday cage!
>>
>> And probably don't leave the house....
>>
>> The point of number 3 is that there is always a risk, even with
>> 'well-known' software, and as someone else said - they're watching you
>> anyway. The question is how 'safe' do you want to be? And how
>> paranoid are you, really?
>>
>> Wow, talk about rabbit hole! ;-)
>>
>> 'Let the flames begin!' :-)
>>
>>
>> On 6/25/24 18:50, Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>>> wanted sudo not to require a password.
>>> Please reconsider this... This is VERY BAD security practice. There's
>>> basically zero defense if you happen to download/run something
>>> malicious.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2024, at 6:01 PM, Michael via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>>> then I remember that a PLUG member mentioned ChatGPT being good at
>>>> troubleshooting so I figured I'd give it a go. I sprint about half
>>>> an hour asking it the wrong question but after that it took 2
>>>> minutes. I wanted sudo not to require a password. it is wonderful!
>>>> now I don't have to bug you guys. so it looks like this is the end
>>>> of the user group unless you want to talk about OT stuff.
>>>>
>>>> -- :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
---------------------------------------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list:
PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
(text/plain)