On 2024-07-02 19:05, George Toft via PLUG-discuss wrote: > Okay, I now come begging for more information on why RH thinks sudo is > bad. But first a little background... > > Where I work, the first thing we do is remove sudo and replace it with > a shell script that calls our centralized Privileged Access Management > (PAM) system (not naming vendor). The use of sudo requires and > exception and review and is not permanent. So I'm very versed on the > principles and implementation of PAM. Last year our Staff Architect > asked me to compare and contrast sudo against . > Side-by-side, feature-by-feature, I did so, based on our POC's on Red > Hat Identity Manager (IdM), which uses sudo, and locally engineered > solutions. > > I personally detest sudo because it's like chmod 777 * - makes > everything work so much better, and software vendors can just drop in > their own sudo rules in /etc/sudoers.d/ and make magic happen without > you ever knowing what happened. Several times we've had to convert some > vendor's sudo rules to our own system's rules, and I ask the vendor > "Why do you have this rule?" Their answer: "We don't know." OFFS :( > > As far as sudo goes, it is included in the Center for Internet > Security's (CIS) Benchmarks, which is the embodiment of the information > security industry's best practices. I did some work for them for a > couple years, and every change (add/mod/delete) required consensus > approval from 80 organizations around the world, including thee letter > agencies in the US and abroad. Many/most auditors expect financial > institutions to follow this guide, or explain convincingly why not. So > every six months, we get to say: "We don't use sudo. Instead, we do > this." And then we get to do live demos of timed privileged access. > Haven't had a follow-on question in the last 8 years. > ---->>> > (OT: I cringe at referring to CIS because of their collusion with the > Arizona Secretary of State and the Department of Homeland Security to > suppress people's First Amendment Right to Free Speech. Proof is in the > Elon Musk Twitter Dump. I do not have a copy of the email on my > computer. I generally don't tell people I did work for them - it's so > embarrassing. Effing Ratbastards.) So tell us more, please. > > So... back to the original question, as I was not able to find anything > saying Red Hat discourages sudo, nor was my favorite AI. Please toss me > a cookie... > > Regards, > > George Toft > > On 6/26/2024 12:23 PM, Rusty Carruth via PLUG-discuss wrote: >> Actually, I'd like to start a bit of a discussion on this. >> >> >> First, I know that for some reason RedHat seems to think that sudo is >> bad/insecure. >> >> I'd like to know the logic there, as I think the argument FOR using >> sudo is MUCH stronger than any argument I've heard (which, admittedly, >> is pretty close to zero) AGAINST it.   Here's my thinking: >> >> Allowing users to become root via sudo gives you: >> >>  - VERY fine control over what programs a user can use as root >> >>  - The ability to remove admin privs (ability to run as root) from an >> individual WITHOUT having to change root password everywhere. >> >> Now, remember, RH is supposedly 'corporate friendly'.  As a >> corporation, that 2nd feature is well worth the price of admission, >> PLUS I can only allow certain admins to run certain programs? Very >> nice. >> >> So, for example, at my last place I allowed the 'tester' user to run >> fdisk as root, because they needed to partition the disk under test.  >> In my case, and since the network that we ran on was totally isolated >> from the corporate network, I let fdisk be run without needing a >> password.  Oh, and if they messed up and fdisk'ed the boot partition, >> it was no big deal - I could recreate the machine from scratch (minus >> whatever data hadn't been copied off yet - which would only be their >> most recent run), in 10 minutes (which was about 2 minutes of my time, >> and 8 minutes of scripted 'dd' ;-)  However, if the test user wanted >> to become root using su, they had to enter the test user password. >> >> So, back to the original question - setting sudo to not require a >> password.  We should have asked, what program do you want to run as >> root without requiring a password?  How secure is your system? What >> else do you use it for?  Who has access?  etc, etc, etc. >> >> There's one other minor objection I have to the 'zero defense' >> statement below - the malicious thing you downloaded (and, I assume >> ran) has to be written to USE sudo in its attempt to break in, I >> believe, or it wouldn't matter HOW open your sudo was. (simply saying >> 'su - myscript' won't do it). >> >> And, if you're truly paranoid about stuff you download, you should: >> >> 1 - NEVER download something you don't have an excellent reason to >> believe is 'safe', and ALWAYS make sure you actually downloaded it >> from where you thought you did. >> >> 2 - For the TRULY paranoid, have a machine you use to download and >> test software on, which you can totally disconnect from your network >> (not JUST the internet), and which has NO confidential info, and which >> you can erase and rebuild without caring.  Run the downloaded stuff >> there, for a long time, until you're pretty sure it won't bite you. >> >> 3 - For the REALLY REALLY paranoid, don't download anything from >> anywhere, disconnect from the internet permanently, get high-tech >> locks for your doors, and wrap your house in a faraday cage! >> >> And probably don't leave the house.... >> >> The point of number 3 is that there is always a risk, even with >> 'well-known' software, and as someone else said - they're watching you >> anyway.  The question is how 'safe' do you want to be? And how >> paranoid are you, really? >> >> Wow, talk about rabbit hole! ;-) >> >> 'Let the flames begin!' :-) >> >> >> On 6/25/24 18:50, Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss wrote: >>>> wanted sudo not to require a password. >>> Please reconsider this... This is VERY BAD security practice. There's >>> basically zero defense if you happen to download/run something >>> malicious. >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2024, at 6:01 PM, Michael via PLUG-discuss wrote: >>>>   then I remember that a PLUG member mentioned ChatGPT being good at >>>> troubleshooting so I figured I'd give it a go. I sprint about half >>>> an hour asking it the wrong question but after that it took 2 >>>> minutes. I wanted sudo not to require a password. it is wonderful! >>>> now I don't have to bug you guys. so it looks like this is the end >>>> of the user group unless you want to talk about OT stuff. >>>> >>>> -- :-)~MIKE~(-: >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss