<scroll>
Regards,
George Toft
On 7/3/2024 5:57 AM,
techlists@phpcoderusa.com wrote:
> <scroll>
>
> On 2024-07-02 19:05, George Toft via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>> Okay, I now come begging for more information on why RH thinks sudo
>> is bad. But first a little background...
>>
>> Where I work, the first thing we do is remove sudo and replace it
>> with a shell script that calls our centralized Privileged Access
>> Management (PAM) system (not naming vendor). The use of sudo requires
>> and exception and review and is not permanent. So I'm very versed on
>> the principles and implementation of PAM. Last year our Staff
>> Architect asked me to compare and contrast sudo against <unnamed
>> product>. Side-by-side, feature-by-feature, I did so, based on our
>> POC's on Red Hat Identity Manager (IdM), which uses sudo, and locally
>> engineered solutions.
>>
>> I personally detest sudo because it's like chmod 777 * - makes
>> everything work so much better, and software vendors can just drop in
>> their own sudo rules in /etc/sudoers.d/ and make magic happen without
>> you ever knowing what happened. Several times we've had to convert
>> some vendor's sudo rules to our own system's rules, and I ask the
>> vendor "Why do you have this rule?" Their answer: "We don't know."
>> OFFS :(
>>
>> As far as sudo goes, it is included in the Center for Internet
>> Security's (CIS) Benchmarks, which is the embodiment of the
>> information security industry's best practices. I did some work for
>> them for a couple years, and every change (add/mod/delete) required
>> consensus approval from 80 organizations around the world, including
>> thee letter agencies in the US and abroad. Many/most auditors expect
>> financial institutions to follow this guide, or explain convincingly
>> why not. So every six months, we get to say: "We don't use sudo.
>> Instead, we do this." And then we get to do live demos of timed
>> privileged access. Haven't had a follow-on question in the last 8 years.
>>
> ---->>>
>
>> (OT: I cringe at referring to CIS because of their collusion with the
>> Arizona Secretary of State and the Department of Homeland Security to
>> suppress people's First Amendment Right to Free Speech. Proof is in
>> the Elon Musk Twitter Dump. I do not have a copy of the email on my
>> computer. I generally don't tell people I did work for them - it's so
>> embarrassing. Effing Ratbastards.)
>
> So tell us more, please.
>
https://nclalegal.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Joint-Statement-on-Discovery-Disputes-Combined.pdf
search for "PageID #: 2793"
Other than to say Free Speech is like Free Software - must be cherished.
Whether the speech/software is useful is up to the consumer, not the
government.
End of Line.
>
>
>>
>> So... back to the original question, as I was not able to find
>> anything saying Red Hat discourages sudo, nor was my favorite AI.
>> Please toss me a cookie...
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> George Toft
>>
>> On 6/26/2024 12:23 PM, Rusty Carruth via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>> Actually, I'd like to start a bit of a discussion on this.
>>>
>>>
>>> First, I know that for some reason RedHat seems to think that sudo
>>> is bad/insecure.
>>>
>>> I'd like to know the logic there, as I think the argument FOR using
>>> sudo is MUCH stronger than any argument I've heard (which,
>>> admittedly, is pretty close to zero) AGAINST it. Here's my thinking:
>>>
>>> Allowing users to become root via sudo gives you:
>>>
>>> - VERY fine control over what programs a user can use as root
>>>
>>> - The ability to remove admin privs (ability to run as root) from
>>> an individual WITHOUT having to change root password everywhere.
>>>
>>> Now, remember, RH is supposedly 'corporate friendly'. As a
>>> corporation, that 2nd feature is well worth the price of admission,
>>> PLUS I can only allow certain admins to run certain programs? Very
>>> nice.
>>>
>>> So, for example, at my last place I allowed the 'tester' user to run
>>> fdisk as root, because they needed to partition the disk under
>>> test. In my case, and since the network that we ran on was totally
>>> isolated from the corporate network, I let fdisk be run without
>>> needing a password. Oh, and if they messed up and fdisk'ed the boot
>>> partition, it was no big deal - I could recreate the machine from
>>> scratch (minus whatever data hadn't been copied off yet - which
>>> would only be their most recent run), in 10 minutes (which was about
>>> 2 minutes of my time, and 8 minutes of scripted 'dd' ;-) However,
>>> if the test user wanted to become root using su, they had to enter
>>> the test user password.
>>>
>>> So, back to the original question - setting sudo to not require a
>>> password. We should have asked, what program do you want to run as
>>> root without requiring a password? How secure is your system? What
>>> else do you use it for? Who has access? etc, etc, etc.
>>>
>>> There's one other minor objection I have to the 'zero defense'
>>> statement below - the malicious thing you downloaded (and, I assume
>>> ran) has to be written to USE sudo in its attempt to break in, I
>>> believe, or it wouldn't matter HOW open your sudo was. (simply
>>> saying 'su - myscript' won't do it).
>>>
>>> And, if you're truly paranoid about stuff you download, you should:
>>>
>>> 1 - NEVER download something you don't have an excellent reason to
>>> believe is 'safe', and ALWAYS make sure you actually downloaded it
>>> from where you thought you did.
>>>
>>> 2 - For the TRULY paranoid, have a machine you use to download and
>>> test software on, which you can totally disconnect from your network
>>> (not JUST the internet), and which has NO confidential info, and
>>> which you can erase and rebuild without caring. Run the downloaded
>>> stuff there, for a long time, until you're pretty sure it won't bite
>>> you.
>>>
>>> 3 - For the REALLY REALLY paranoid, don't download anything from
>>> anywhere, disconnect from the internet permanently, get high-tech
>>> locks for your doors, and wrap your house in a faraday cage!
>>>
>>> And probably don't leave the house....
>>>
>>> The point of number 3 is that there is always a risk, even with
>>> 'well-known' software, and as someone else said - they're watching
>>> you anyway. The question is how 'safe' do you want to be? And how
>>> paranoid are you, really?
>>>
>>> Wow, talk about rabbit hole! ;-)
>>>
>>> 'Let the flames begin!' :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/25/24 18:50, Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>>>> wanted sudo not to require a password.
>>>> Please reconsider this... This is VERY BAD security practice.
>>>> There's basically zero defense if you happen to download/run
>>>> something malicious.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2024, at 6:01 PM, Michael via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>>>> then I remember that a PLUG member mentioned ChatGPT being good
>>>>> at troubleshooting so I figured I'd give it a go. I sprint about
>>>>> half an hour asking it the wrong question but after that it took 2
>>>>> minutes. I wanted sudo not to require a password. it is wonderful!
>>>>> now I don't have to bug you guys. so it looks like this is the end
>>>>> of the user group unless you want to talk about OT stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- :-)~MIKE~(-:
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>>>>>
>>>>
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