Who's to blame indeed... We are - our political class.
On 2023-06-07 18:25, Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>> QUESTION?
>>
>> I understand TSMC produces the most chips in the world, and is
> located
>> in Taiwan . Where did they get that technology and who paid for
> that
> > technology?
>
> Being old enough to be there and experience the start of
> mass-production of copy/duplicate/counterfeit goods in the late 70's
> and 80's, I'd say it all started with "Made in Taiwan" goods.
>
> From my perspective from childhood on, it was in the form of knock-off
> toys, brand name fashions, CD's, tools, you name it, it was everywhere
> new and used, and it was all "Made in Taiwan". Not sure if it was them
> simply getting the impetus to clone our stuff, or someone
> surreptitiously asking them to do so to undercut established brands
> from here. Either way, it set off the flood into our domestic markets
> for crapgadgets.
>
> Taiwan goods were always just a bit crappier, sort of mislabled, would
> always break early if not out of box, would never fit quite right, but
> hey it was a fraction of the price! In my teens my focus was tools
> growing up to be a mechanic, and buying second-hand goods would always
> see a direct clone of a $100 "Snap-On" brand high-end wrench as a $5
> "Stack-On" clone from Taiwan. Harbor Freight made a name and business
> selling knock-off American "Chicago Pneumatic" tools as "Central
> Pneumatic" (many others too), all Made in Taiwan (now China), and
> still does.
>
> In the 80's, US orgs began asking Taiwan to actually make these things
> for us including eventually semiconductors for us, even giving them
> the plans, when they already had the clone game down pimp tight.
> That's about the time China took over and now frowns upon mentioning
> Taiwan as anything other than China, thus generically everything is
> "Made in China" since then.
>
> As we sent our engineering designs there to get bargains in
> production, and taught them how to make our things including the
> machinery. Eventually those copies as part of reverse engineering
> became prototypes, continued to be made and improved on, if not in
> quality, in profit margins to make them cheaper, even eventually
> adapting into new products. As it was always explained to me, it
> starts with them making "one for me, then one for themselves", and
> later "one for me, two for themselves", ad nauseam.
>
> Next thing you know you have Coach purses rolling out of the same
> factory as the Couch purses that look the same sold in swap meets and
> alleyways around the world, barely indistinguishable except the
> receipt. Even worse now, you get things like selling counterfeit
> Cisco switches to everything from government to education [1] using
> modchips to bypass security on the clone [2], or buying pretty much
> anything of Amazon is likely a counterfeit clone of a clone of a
> clone.
>
> Who's to blame indeed...
>
> -mb
>
> On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 3:29 PM Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss
> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-06-07 13:59, James Mcphee via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>> Generally, if I hear it from cable news, there's a good chance
>> it's
>>> just someone drumming up support for something. In this case,
>> we'll
>>> probably hear about some kind of H1B system to make sure the new
>> fabs
>>> get all the people they need, etc. Same deal as when I was
>> working at
>>> a company that got bought by Dell, and they failed to retain most
>> of
>>> the new employees because they didn't have a structure that worked
>>> with professionals. Suddenly you saw Michael Dell doing an
>> interview
>>> on CNBC about the need to extend H1B 'cause they aren't getting
>> enough
>>> workers. At the very least, there's plenty of incentive to drive
>> down
>>> labor costs. And with the halts for new housing going out, there
>> is a
>>> LOT of incentive to manipulate the market.
>>>
>>> Am I being paranoid? I probably need to touch more grass.
>>
>> Are you getting too paranoid? Maybe not. I quit following the news
>>
>> because I think most are fearmongering and not talking and working
>> on
>> the real problems.
>>
>> I personally do not like the H1B visas because I do not think they
>> are
>> necessary. If there is really a shortage of tech workers then why is
>>
>> there not a few major tech universities? Why does Gates exploit the
>> H1B
>> and not create a really great tech university? And why do the
>> politicians allow all of this?
>>
>> We have all we need right here in our 50 states, so why do we not do
>>
>> things that benefit ourselves and possibly others?
>>
>> These people like Michael Dell, Bill Gates, etc have forgotten where
>>
>> they came from.
>>
>> QUESTION?
>>
>> I understand TSMC produces the most chips in the world, and is
>> located
>> in Taiwan . Where did they get that technology and who paid for
>> that
>> technology?
>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 1:15 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss
>>> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't believe everything you read on the internet. I've read
>> that
>>>> Abraham Lincoln blames Donald Trump for giving the gun to John
>>>> Wilkes Booth.
>>>>
>>>> On 6/6/23 17:45, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>>>> Chip maker TSMC is moving to chandler and I have read they are a
>>>>> sweatshop....
>>>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> James McPhee
>>> jmcphe@gmail.com
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>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
> https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/ceo-guilty-of-selling-counterfeit-cisco-devices-to-military-govt-orgs/
> [2]
> https://hackaday.com/2023/02/01/counterfeit-cisco-hardware-bypasses-security-checks-with-modchips/
> ---------------------------------------------------
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