On 2022-08-28 16:51,
techlists@phpcoderusa.com wrote:
> Main PLUG discussion list <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org>
>
> I started this thread because I do not see any problems with PHP. I
> think the community is trying to fix something that is not broke.
> Yikes I probably just pissed-off a few people. I'm not here to fight,
> I am here to learn.
>
> I think what is broke is the community. The only thing that I think
> is missing is a compiler or some sort of machine code
> generator/interpreter like Java.
>
> Please educate me.
>
> <scroll>
>
> On 2022-08-28 01:09, David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>> My opinion might not count for much since I don’t really program
>> with PHP, although I spent about a year with V4 in 2000. I do enjoy
>> looking at the language updates and seeing what small steps the PHP
>> language Gods take each time it’s updated. In contrast to C++, PHP
>> seems to be evolving at a snail’s pace.
>
> Interesting. Not sure what needs to change. Any thoughts?
>
>>
>> The issues about interpreted (aka, “scripting”) languages is
>> bogus. Python is now the #1 most popular programming language in the
>> world, and it’s interpreted. So there goes that theory.
>>
>> https://skilldeck.org/learning/best-programming-language-to-learn [2]
>>
>> My take on PHP is that it has been in a stuck-in-the-middle state for
>>> 20 years, between being a “structured/procedural programming” and
>> “object-oriented” language. Kind of like C++ was before V1.1 or so
>> was introduced.
>
> I seem to recall about 5 years ago there was some debate going on
> between the those who thought we should turn to procedural programming
> and those who thought OOP was the only way.
>
> I can see the need for both in PHP. PHP is often embedded in HTML and
> i am thinking it needs to be procedural. There other times PHP is
> used to create an app and OOP is probably the best approach.
>
>
>>
>> Still, while you can use both to create OO code, you can also use both
>> to write horrid code that runs just fine and doesn’t use any of the
>> class-related language constructs.
>
> Isn't that a hiring manager and team manager's issue not the language.
> In 1988 I did a short internship at the city of Tucson. It was all
> spaghetti code. Was that COBOL's fault or a lack of leadership. I
> think it was a short coming in management.
>
> It was a horrid experience.
>
>>
>> Over the years, C++ has been embraced by the OOP community and you
>> don’t see anybody demanding that C++ compilers be able to compile
>> any old C code. The C standard is still evolving and it keeps taking
>> on bits and pieces of things inspired by C++, but it’s really still
>> not an OOP language.
>
> What you said is disturbing. C and C++ ae two different languages.
> It is my understanding C is not object oriented while C++ is. If
> someone does not like C then move to C++ do not cross pollinate.
>
>>
>> But I’ve heard PHP coders constantly complaining about the fact that
>> the use of classes in PHP kills performance. Yeah, as if Python users
>> think that’s even relevant! Python is 100% OOP right out of the
>> gate, and they seem proud of it. Both are interpreted, and both are
>> probably about as efficient compared with a compiled language. (Are
>> there any performance comparisons between equivalent PHP and Python
>> apps?)
>
> Interesting. The minimalists continue to complain. Yikes!! I'm a
> minimalist and also recognize server assets are cheap. So why worry
> so much?
>
> I have a friend that refuses to use WordPress because it is bloatware.
> Yikes!! It really comes down to a business decision.
>
> I spoke with a guy who was running two steel mills using a PHP web app
> that ran on shared hosting.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> If an OOP-based interpreted language can attain the "#1 most popular
>> language” slot and nobody cares about the little bit of overhead
>> that the OO part imposes on the execution time, then perhaps it’s
>> time for PHP coders to suck-it-up and learn how to REALLY code in OOP
>> idioms!
>
> Please expand on OOP idioms.
>
>
>
>> Until then, it’s the PHP programming community that’s
>> shooting itself in the feet, not the language. Get rid of the
>> “holes” in the language that allow it to process old code that
>> breaks all of the encapsulation rules and make the use of classes more
>> direct rather than forcing the use of squirrly syntax that is
>> constantly reminding people “this isn’t really an object-oriented
>> language … but you can use it that way … IF YOU INSIST”.
>>
>
> I'd like to understand more, please expand on this.
>
>
>
>
>> This is 2022. Nobody teaches plain old structured/procedural
>> programming any more — they don’t even say they’re teaching OOP,
>> it’s just what all modern languages support today. Except PHP, which
>> cannot seem to decide if it’s ever going to grow up and let go of
>> its procedural roots.
>>
>> (Perhaps a big part of the problem is all of the old procedural PHP
>> code that people are scared to refactor. So instead they just start
>> over in Python?)
>
> Is that true? Do you think Python is the language that will topple
> PHP?
>
>
>>
>> -David Schwartz
>>
>>> On Aug 27, 2022, at 7:11 PM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss
>>> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Just in time to add another thread that might be as intense as the
>>> sysd...etc thread.
>>>
>>> For years I have heard that people say PHP is not a real language.
>>>
>>> One guy says interpreted languages are not real programming
>>> languages, they are scripting languages. I guess way back when I
>>> was an xBase developer I must have not been a real programmer. Back
>>> in the day The only compiled xBase was Clipper Summer 87 by
>>> Nantucket Corp. I think it was possible to compile xBase code but I
>>> never did except with Clipper Summer 87. I think Visual Fox was
>>> compiled...
>>>
>>> Another says the barrier to entry makes it possible for
>>> non-professional programmers to get hired and to mess up the code
>>> base. Isn't that a hiring manager's issue?
>>>
>>> I think PHP is a great language and a lot of others must think so
>>> too.
>>>
>>> I really liked the decade long ride with PHP 5. I think 7 brought
>>> some good changes in the area of speed and the removal of Register
>>> globals.
>>>
>>> PHP must be doing something right because it is run by upwards of
>>> 80% of the websites on the Internet.
>>>
>>> I do think the PHP team is moving too fast. We now have version 8.
>>>
>>> So what is wrong with PHP and where are we going in such a hurry?
>>>
>>> And finally why does PHP have to be anything but simple stupid?
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [1]
>>
>>
>>
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1]
>> https://u2206659.ct.sendgrid.net/ls/click?upn=SJEG7TF39YLaAIMD0HhsfC6E-2FcJXOs2D1VhGcvn2YkObFLMBOC3gmante55BOqf2F-2ByuZjZxeWAcK3DSlXP4Xtp4dQImX1G2Oq-2BQoN6woQ4-3DIGUn_o-2BjQxMsWfboH-2B-2BcY2qb3IYCoqvthnvff9ftZz0pNEJ2tF1jbVlVBtrlaPYq4av3G-2Bt7mm8IMBuhSVqpCcnh12JGn5VGiBp4ej1D8wF4Jr4FTQlK7hoEK3EP8wIQljijQxbFmgL1DTcUs-2FK-2FluF7H6a3cTOBL2PtAMGgoX3WBKv4u8sIx0qipYDd9nqYkaVO6jawoylmYYYvBm5MyF-2BK45amc-2F04l8F1e4LxUBQA1xds-3D
>> [2]
>> https://u2206659.ct.sendgrid.net/ls/click?upn=SJEG7TF39YLaAIMD0HhsfJVUp5k4FPRQWFpjhE34mwwmabVu4BgQFRZ5Xq2IUprGzUTK3y1lVUwk6pWsIx2TMhl19zUBjc-2FtfGZ5-2Bt75qno-3DK04D_o-2BjQxMsWfboH-2B-2BcY2qb3IYCoqvthnvff9ftZz0pNEJ2tF1jbVlVBtrlaPYq4av3G-2Bt7mm8IMBuhSVqpCcnh12HsoQ-2BSiGw-2FyHTUky4JFaIjx5N3yakVaDRcDfXlnzwEr0d0hYkuXQ-2BqpePSh9x8ifL92Pji0rlXG52S0d-2FX1zORp0Eodq5GYOSdPU2fi8ffwT7Jc9xpfgMod0dxrFpVEeP6FVqeNGyel-2By4K7C3Jx0c-3D
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
---------------------------------------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list -
PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
(text/plain)