also, it was mentioned that arch has benefits..... what are those?
On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 9:12 AM Michael <
bmike1@gmail.com> wrote:
> thank yout for the advice.
>
> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 9:10 AM James Mcphee via PLUG-discuss <
> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> Oh sorry, I must have buried the lead. I use systemd linux systems for
>> my desktopy desktops (ubuntu and fedora mostly). Aka, the ones i check
>> email, browse the web, play games on. For my developery desktops I do not
>> use systemd, but that is born of pure frustration and malding.
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 6:05 AM Michael via PLUG-discuss <
>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>
>>> So do you recommend system d for a desktop? It assms you don't and then
>>> you do.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 8:44 AM James Mcphee via PLUG-discuss <
>>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> two main reasons.
>>>>
>>>> one is ideological. the way systemd was put into the community rubbed
>>>> a lot of people the wrong way. i won't get into the details, you can google
>>>> for that whole war. no sense bringing it up again.
>>>>
>>>> two is simplicity. systemd is now over a million lines of code. to
>>>> put that into perspective, going by the mythical man month numbers, a
>>>> single good programmer can average understanding 2 pages of code a day in a
>>>> complex codebase. That's 50 lines of code per day. from the same source,
>>>> developers produce roughly 10 lines of code per day on average. now,
>>>> there's a lot of give around these numbers, but you can get some idea of
>>>> the scale of trying to get a handle on it if there's a bug you need to work
>>>> with.
>>>>
>>>> a couple of bugs i've had to deal with in recent memory, extended udp
>>>> handling in resolved and console output (which was actually correct to
>>>> standard in systemd, but everyone had worked around the previous bug and
>>>> that workaround wasn't compatible with the systemd implementation).
>>>> neither of these were minor. the resolved bug prevented adoption of dnssec
>>>> and the console thing required manual intervention of containers using it
>>>> (docker, k8s, etc). i don't know if these things have been resolved either
>>>> in systemd or the container systems. the problems in question forced a
>>>> rearchitecture of our projects as fixes were not going to be fast enough
>>>> and we haven't revisited them. for the resolved issue, the systemd project
>>>> lead flat out said it wasn't a priority. for the container/console issue,
>>>> you have to go back in time when the docker team wore "no, i will not merge
>>>> your systemd patches into our codebase" tshirts to conventions.
>>>>
>>>> in conclusion, i use systemd for servers, desktops, and vms. I find it
>>>> quite reliable in most cases. i think it does a better job with login,
>>>> hal, service dependency, and mtab than the older system. for my use case
>>>> of containers, it is entirely unnecessary and nothing but a headache. for
>>>> my developer station, i mald quite enough and have no patience left to deal
>>>> with it when it inevitably creates issues (oh, no for this thing you need
>>>> to put your proxy settings 3 layers of abstraction down over here with this
>>>> particular format) and tend to use the simplest system possible.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 4:38 AM Michael via PLUG-discuss <
>>>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Why would u not want system d?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 4:15 AM Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss <
>>>>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 2022-08-26 at 17:50 -0700, T. Zack Crawford via PLUG-discuss
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> > I would recommend not Manjaro because it's just a less-good arch
>>>>>> linux.
>>>>>> > I use Arch Linux. Depends what you're looking for, though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or, Artix could be used in order to get the benefits of Arch without
>>>>>> systemd.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SteveT
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> James McPhee
>>>> jmcphe@gmail.com
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> James McPhee
>> jmcphe@gmail.com
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>
>
>
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> :-)~MIKE~(-:
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