thank yout for the advice.
On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 9:10 AM James Mcphee via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
> Oh sorry, I must have buried the lead. I use systemd linux systems for my
> desktopy desktops (ubuntu and fedora mostly). Aka, the ones i check email,
> browse the web, play games on. For my developery desktops I do not use
> systemd, but that is born of pure frustration and malding.
>
> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 6:05 AM Michael via PLUG-discuss <
> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> So do you recommend system d for a desktop? It assms you don't and then
>> you do.
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 8:44 AM James Mcphee via PLUG-discuss <
>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>
>>> two main reasons.
>>>
>>> one is ideological. the way systemd was put into the community rubbed a
>>> lot of people the wrong way. i won't get into the details, you can google
>>> for that whole war. no sense bringing it up again.
>>>
>>> two is simplicity. systemd is now over a million lines of code. to put
>>> that into perspective, going by the mythical man month numbers, a single
>>> good programmer can average understanding 2 pages of code a day in a
>>> complex codebase. That's 50 lines of code per day. from the same source,
>>> developers produce roughly 10 lines of code per day on average. now,
>>> there's a lot of give around these numbers, but you can get some idea of
>>> the scale of trying to get a handle on it if there's a bug you need to work
>>> with.
>>>
>>> a couple of bugs i've had to deal with in recent memory, extended udp
>>> handling in resolved and console output (which was actually correct to
>>> standard in systemd, but everyone had worked around the previous bug and
>>> that workaround wasn't compatible with the systemd implementation).
>>> neither of these were minor. the resolved bug prevented adoption of dnssec
>>> and the console thing required manual intervention of containers using it
>>> (docker, k8s, etc). i don't know if these things have been resolved either
>>> in systemd or the container systems. the problems in question forced a
>>> rearchitecture of our projects as fixes were not going to be fast enough
>>> and we haven't revisited them. for the resolved issue, the systemd project
>>> lead flat out said it wasn't a priority. for the container/console issue,
>>> you have to go back in time when the docker team wore "no, i will not merge
>>> your systemd patches into our codebase" tshirts to conventions.
>>>
>>> in conclusion, i use systemd for servers, desktops, and vms. I find it
>>> quite reliable in most cases. i think it does a better job with login,
>>> hal, service dependency, and mtab than the older system. for my use case
>>> of containers, it is entirely unnecessary and nothing but a headache. for
>>> my developer station, i mald quite enough and have no patience left to deal
>>> with it when it inevitably creates issues (oh, no for this thing you need
>>> to put your proxy settings 3 layers of abstraction down over here with this
>>> particular format) and tend to use the simplest system possible.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 4:38 AM Michael via PLUG-discuss <
>>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why would u not want system d?
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 4:15 AM Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss <
>>>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 2022-08-26 at 17:50 -0700, T. Zack Crawford via PLUG-discuss
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > I would recommend not Manjaro because it's just a less-good arch
>>>>> linux.
>>>>> > I use Arch Linux. Depends what you're looking for, though.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or, Artix could be used in order to get the benefits of Arch without
>>>>> systemd.
>>>>>
>>>>> SteveT
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> James McPhee
>>> jmcphe@gmail.com
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
>
>
>
> --
> James McPhee
> jmcphe@gmail.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
--
:-)~MIKE~(-:
---------------------------------------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list -
PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
(text/plain)