Oh sorry, I must have buried the lead. I use systemd linux systems for my
desktopy desktops (ubuntu and fedora mostly). Aka, the ones i check email,
browse the web, play games on. For my developery desktops I do not use
systemd, but that is born of pure frustration and malding.
On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 6:05 AM Michael via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
> So do you recommend system d for a desktop? It assms you don't and then
> you do.
>
> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 8:44 AM James Mcphee via PLUG-discuss <
> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> two main reasons.
>>
>> one is ideological. the way systemd was put into the community rubbed a
>> lot of people the wrong way. i won't get into the details, you can google
>> for that whole war. no sense bringing it up again.
>>
>> two is simplicity. systemd is now over a million lines of code. to put
>> that into perspective, going by the mythical man month numbers, a single
>> good programmer can average understanding 2 pages of code a day in a
>> complex codebase. That's 50 lines of code per day. from the same source,
>> developers produce roughly 10 lines of code per day on average. now,
>> there's a lot of give around these numbers, but you can get some idea of
>> the scale of trying to get a handle on it if there's a bug you need to work
>> with.
>>
>> a couple of bugs i've had to deal with in recent memory, extended udp
>> handling in resolved and console output (which was actually correct to
>> standard in systemd, but everyone had worked around the previous bug and
>> that workaround wasn't compatible with the systemd implementation).
>> neither of these were minor. the resolved bug prevented adoption of dnssec
>> and the console thing required manual intervention of containers using it
>> (docker, k8s, etc). i don't know if these things have been resolved either
>> in systemd or the container systems. the problems in question forced a
>> rearchitecture of our projects as fixes were not going to be fast enough
>> and we haven't revisited them. for the resolved issue, the systemd project
>> lead flat out said it wasn't a priority. for the container/console issue,
>> you have to go back in time when the docker team wore "no, i will not merge
>> your systemd patches into our codebase" tshirts to conventions.
>>
>> in conclusion, i use systemd for servers, desktops, and vms. I find it
>> quite reliable in most cases. i think it does a better job with login,
>> hal, service dependency, and mtab than the older system. for my use case
>> of containers, it is entirely unnecessary and nothing but a headache. for
>> my developer station, i mald quite enough and have no patience left to deal
>> with it when it inevitably creates issues (oh, no for this thing you need
>> to put your proxy settings 3 layers of abstraction down over here with this
>> particular format) and tend to use the simplest system possible.
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 4:38 AM Michael via PLUG-discuss <
>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Why would u not want system d?
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 4:15 AM Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss <
>>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 2022-08-26 at 17:50 -0700, T. Zack Crawford via PLUG-discuss
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > I would recommend not Manjaro because it's just a less-good arch
>>>> linux.
>>>> > I use Arch Linux. Depends what you're looking for, though.
>>>>
>>>> Or, Artix could be used in order to get the benefits of Arch without
>>>> systemd.
>>>>
>>>> SteveT
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>>>
>>> --
>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James McPhee
>> jmcphe@gmail.com
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>
>
>
> --
> :-)~MIKE~(-:
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James McPhee
jmcphe@gmail.com
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