Oh sorry, I must have buried the lead. I use systemd linux systems for my desktopy desktops (ubuntu and fedora mostly). Aka, the ones i check email, browse the web, play games on. For my developery desktops I do not use systemd, but that is born of pure frustration and malding. On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 6:05 AM Michael via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > So do you recommend system d for a desktop? It assms you don't and then > you do. > > On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 8:44 AM James Mcphee via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > >> two main reasons. >> >> one is ideological. the way systemd was put into the community rubbed a >> lot of people the wrong way. i won't get into the details, you can google >> for that whole war. no sense bringing it up again. >> >> two is simplicity. systemd is now over a million lines of code. to put >> that into perspective, going by the mythical man month numbers, a single >> good programmer can average understanding 2 pages of code a day in a >> complex codebase. That's 50 lines of code per day. from the same source, >> developers produce roughly 10 lines of code per day on average. now, >> there's a lot of give around these numbers, but you can get some idea of >> the scale of trying to get a handle on it if there's a bug you need to work >> with. >> >> a couple of bugs i've had to deal with in recent memory, extended udp >> handling in resolved and console output (which was actually correct to >> standard in systemd, but everyone had worked around the previous bug and >> that workaround wasn't compatible with the systemd implementation). >> neither of these were minor. the resolved bug prevented adoption of dnssec >> and the console thing required manual intervention of containers using it >> (docker, k8s, etc). i don't know if these things have been resolved either >> in systemd or the container systems. the problems in question forced a >> rearchitecture of our projects as fixes were not going to be fast enough >> and we haven't revisited them. for the resolved issue, the systemd project >> lead flat out said it wasn't a priority. for the container/console issue, >> you have to go back in time when the docker team wore "no, i will not merge >> your systemd patches into our codebase" tshirts to conventions. >> >> in conclusion, i use systemd for servers, desktops, and vms. I find it >> quite reliable in most cases. i think it does a better job with login, >> hal, service dependency, and mtab than the older system. for my use case >> of containers, it is entirely unnecessary and nothing but a headache. for >> my developer station, i mald quite enough and have no patience left to deal >> with it when it inevitably creates issues (oh, no for this thing you need >> to put your proxy settings 3 layers of abstraction down over here with this >> particular format) and tend to use the simplest system possible. >> >> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 4:38 AM Michael via PLUG-discuss < >> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >> >>> Why would u not want system d? >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 4:15 AM Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss < >>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, 2022-08-26 at 17:50 -0700, T. Zack Crawford via PLUG-discuss >>>> wrote: >>>> > I would recommend not Manjaro because it's just a less-good arch >>>> linux. >>>> > I use Arch Linux. Depends what you're looking for, though. >>>> >>>> Or, Artix could be used in order to get the benefits of Arch without >>>> systemd. >>>> >>>> SteveT >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >>> -- >>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >> >> -- >> James McPhee >> jmcphe@gmail.com >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > -- > :-)~MIKE~(-: > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- James McPhee jmcphe@gmail.com