> Part of me really would enjoy setting something like this up. The new
> High speed and dedicated wireless/microwave tools we have now are
> pretty dang phenomenal and could lead to a decent wireless/wired
> hybrid internet service.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 12:19 PM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss
> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
> <mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org>> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure I could live somewhere with crap internet, I would
> probably go about forming some sort of local isp of sorts if
> enough folks around to be worth it. It's not exactly hard,
> backward telcos and cable companies can figure it out, it's all
> capital cost up front and who pays for it, ideally more than just you.
>
> Circa 2003 at cox business, we had some baller customers with
> DS3's to their house (one ran an isp in his basement), which
> really meant we installed an OC3 fiber node there, and gave them a
> third of it. These were maybe $2000-3000/mo circuits, but the
> construction to get fiber to their crib alone might be $30-50k.
> One customer in the middle of a lake community was more to build
> into. Either they lock you into a 5yr or more contract to make
> that construction cost back, or you pay it up front.
>
> Back then, I worked a lot with the project group that did
> construction, so I sat down with someone and we looked at getting
> fiber to my house for some baller service myself, ideally with
> some employee discount... They estimated roughly $35k in cost
> alone for construction, including construction street cuts to bury
> fiber, permitting, etc, let alone service, and mine wasn't
> terribly complex. I considered reselling to neighbors, but back
> then expensive gigabit options probably weren't too attractive to
> general consumers in 2003. I stuck with my cable modem, they
> didn't pay that well.
>
> Today that would probably be equivalent to a 10GbE+ drop to your
> house, but at scale of cost most likely. Resell that to your
> neighbors for some premium bandwidth, everyone wins, but presumes
> your neighbors aren't all luddites. Some rural communities are
> doing this, when AT&T and others aren't shutting them down.
>
> -mb
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 9:19 AM Bob Elzer via PLUG-discuss
> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
> <mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org>> wrote:
>
> I'd brush up on fiber splicing lol
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 1:40 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss
> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
> <mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org>> wrote:
>
> AT&T is still fscked up. The tech came out today and told
> me that the cutoff for the service is 4800 feet and I'm
> 5136 feet from the box the modem talks to. He ran some
> test anyway and confirmed it's not available. He told me
> he has heard of no plans to bring fiber to my
> neighborhood, but said it is available in a small town 5
> miles up the road from me in one direction. 3 miles down
> the road in the other direction is a subdivision that has
> it. The fiber runs next to the highway less than a
> hundred yards from here. I guess it's time to see what
> other options if any are available.
>
> On 8/16/20 10:39 AM, Michael Butash wrote:
>> I think it mostly comes down to the fact that they can
>> only really guarantee 2 or 4 wires to a premise for
>> residential telco, probably more modern deployments a
>> full 8 wires (ala CatX), though their traditional copper
>> distribution isn't built for it unless commercial (their
>> big PED on the roads your neighborhood comes back to.
>> Probably something in the telcordia standards back to ma
>> bell days that says that is just how it is. Since the
>> plants are non-shielded, non-twisted pair cabling too, it
>> can only modulate so high, particularly when poorly
>> run/done, which is why you're stuck at 12mbps.
>>
>> If they had to change your home copper, they'd just run
>> fiber, neither will happen likely.
>>
>> The DSL bonding is already a hack to get more bandwidth
>> when DSL itself is stuck in time now at raw theoretical
>> limits. Combining more physical channels as these were
>> would be trivial, if copper were available, and telcos
>> wanted to support it. Someone would need to make the
>> modem too. Technically cable modems do this, literally
>> taking "channels" or slices or spectrum on the wire, and
>> load-balancing them internally, up to 24 or 32 channels
>> for multi-gig capabilities. Same with ethernet, taking 8
>> into a port-channel and balancing across them, whether
>> 100 megabit or 400 gigabit ethernet.
>>
>> AT&T is the most ghetto provider out there still, and
>> always has been imho. Moving to San Jose in '99, there
>> was AT&T Cable TV installed by the owners, which
>> consisted of 2x of your standard coax ala modern cable
>> from the outside, and required a physical a/b switch box
>> to switch between 13 channels on one, and 13 channels on
>> another. First I looked at it, and was confused enough I
>> had to call them and ask wtf the cable "channels" worked
>> to realize just how bad it was, and I then worked for the
>> original @home cable isp company then supporting AT&T
>> cable modems! The images were even snowy, the service
>> was so bad even a tech couldn't (read: wouldn't)
>> improve. When I asked about a cable modem, they laughed
>> at me, so I had to get DSL (phat 1.5mbps then),
>> disconnected the useless cable tv (yay usenet
>> alt.binaries.video even then), and threw up a finger to AT&T.
>>
>> I can only imagine how bad AT&T's DSL is if they couldn't
>> figure out even coax. My experience supporting their
>> customers for Cable Modem data in '99, relatively new
>> tech then, wasn't much better, as if the cable plant to
>> your house was broke, it tended to just stay broke
>> despite our rolling their techs to fix it. Then they'd
>> get angry at us for doing so and tell us to stop rolling
>> so many trucks to fix things.
>>
>> Sigh.
>>
>> Having grown up in Phoenix where Dimension, and later Cox
>> actually had their shit (relatively) together, this was
>> an inconceivable atrocity but exactly what I'd expect of
>> AT&T. Thanks to them (and Comcast, all the media cartels
>> now really) owning the FCC now with your tax dollars,
>> it'll never, ever, get better either. Good thing Net
>> Neutrality and consumer rights weren't really needed
>> after all!
>>
>> -mb
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 12:42 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss
>> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>> <mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org>> wrote:
>>
>> 150 Mbps, you're lucky. Here AT&T has to bond 2
>> pairs so I can get 25 Mbps. At least it's not
>> comcast. I wonder how many pairs they could bond.
>> Is there a technical limit or is it just a matter of
>> how many they want to bond? As more people abandon
>> landlines, that leaves more capacity for AT&T to bond
>> multiple pairs for internet customers.
>>
>> On 8/10/20 11:21 AM, Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss
>> wrote:
>>> So I went through this moving from Cox to
>>> CenturyLink, and pretty much as described, fairly
>>> painless.
>>>
>>> <tldr>
>>>
>>> I had scheduled a CL tech to install me for new
>>> service a few years ago, and we first hit the
>>> outside where CL ran their cabling in. It was an
>>> ancient telephony distribution from the 90's, and
>>> I've never had a land-line in my house since owning
>>> it in 2002. My house built in 95 at least used cat5
>>> or like, so I have 4 pairs to every room, so 2 pairs
>>> I need was just fine for bonded DSL He ripped out
>>> the old block, removing the house cabling but the
>>> one, and isolated the particular line we needed to
>>> my office where the modem lives, added an approved
>>> jack, done. Bonded dsl is 2x 2-wire channels, and
>>> they essentially load-balance 75+75mbps channels. I
>>> have tested this to n-by gigabit upstreams.
>>>
>>> Phone only guarantees 2 wires are available, so
>>> telcos built on this 100 years ago are a bit
>>> assed-out on passable high-frequency modulation
>>> schemas in use for data and other things to move
>>> beyond where they're at. DSL makes up for this,
>>> particularly when double up on wires it gets better,
>>> but still unshielded and prone to breakdown.
>>> Problem is mostly it isn't shielded, thus capable of
>>> very high frequency modulation ala Cable/DOCSIS, so
>>> it will never go much further than it has today
>>> whereas Cable scales to gigabits with channelization
>>> and QAM modulation at 32bit rates.
>>>
>>> VDSL tech is capable of roughly 75mbps per channel,
>>> and 2x of these get you to around CL's bonded DSL
>>> limits. This also includes your distance
>>> limitations to your local DSLAM, or regional router
>>> that terminates your data that degrades this
>>> eventually further you are from it, so it's a bit
>>> tricky. It's been stuck here for years, and pretty
>>> much at life end. This is why my cousin living half
>>> a mile from me can only get 75mbps from CL and I can
>>> with bonded @150mbps here. Old crap network there.
>>>
>>> Fiber, particularly Single Mode, gives you whatever
>>> to ~100GbE, but depends on how your provider does
>>> low-rate Passive Optical Networking (PON) today for
>>> residential fiber. Not quite the same as a business
>>> data network, but any fiber is better than copper
>>> networks.
>>>
>>> Why Centurylink's only hope for the future is fiber
>>> vs. copper in new builds. I like my 25yr old house
>>> still, so no fiber for me ever. Unless I street cut
>>> my block for fiber myself, which I've considered,
>>> just need to get my neighbors to buy into me as
>>> their new gigabit isp. ;)
>>>
>>> -mb
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 1:27 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss
>>> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>>> <mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ok. I won't complain if I have to go out and
>>> buy a 4 conductor phone cord.
>>>
>>> On 8/7/20 9:05 AM, Stephen Partington wrote:
>>>> My understanding of this is that they will
>>>> activate the second pair that is commonly used
>>>> in the RJ-43 port in your wall. This will allow
>>>> 2 lines active to the device.
>>>>
>>>> Changes inside might need to happen if your
>>>> residence does not have 4 wire (2 line)
>>>> compatibility. (IE 2 pairs to the jack vs 1 pair)
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:10 PM Jim via
>>>> PLUG-discuss <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>>>> <mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Where I live, I get AT&T for my DSL
>>>> service. I've signed up for an
>>>> upgrade from 10 Mbps to 25. I finally got
>>>> someone there who would tell
>>>> me why a technician visit is required for
>>>> the upgrade. They're bonding 2
>>>> pairs to supply the faster speed here.
>>>> I've read up online about DSL
>>>> bonding. I understand that one pair will
>>>> carry some of the data, and
>>>> the other pair will carry some. But one
>>>> thing I didn't find out was
>>>> whether or not anything will change between
>>>> the wall jack and the
>>>> modem. Is everything done outside or do
>>>> they have to come inside? I
>>>> currently have a 2 conductor cord
>>>> connecting my modem to the wall jack.
>>>> Will that have to be replaced with a 4
>>>> conductor cord? Do they install
>>>> an extra box outside or inside? I guess
>>>> all will be answered on the
>>>> 18th when the guy is scheduled to be
>>>> here. I'm really curious how this
>>>> works.
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
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>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change
>>>> your mail settings:
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm
>>>> clock, will prevent you from rolling over and
>>>> going back to sleep after you hit the snooze
>>>> button.
>>>>
>>>> Stephen
>>>>
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> --
> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>
> Stephen
>
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