I'll have to watch the comcast bill. When I had them before, they liked
tv service. I put up an antenna and I use locast.org.
> I'm not sure I could live somewhere with crap internet, I would
> probably go about forming some sort of local isp of sorts if enough
> folks around to be worth it. It's not exactly hard, backward telcos
> and cable companies can figure it out, it's all capital cost up front
> and who pays for it, ideally more than just you.
>
> Circa 2003 at cox business, we had some baller customers with DS3's to
> their house (one ran an isp in his basement), which really meant we
> installed an OC3 fiber node there, and gave them a third of it. These
> were maybe $2000-3000/mo circuits, but the construction to get fiber
> to their crib alone might be $30-50k. One customer in the middle of a
> lake community was more to build into. Either they lock you into a
> 5yr or more contract to make that construction cost back, or you pay
> it up front.
>
> Back then, I worked a lot with the project group that did
> construction, so I sat down with someone and we looked at getting
> fiber to my house for some baller service myself, ideally with some
> employee discount... They estimated roughly $35k in cost alone for
> construction, including construction street cuts to bury fiber,
> permitting, etc, let alone service, and mine wasn't terribly complex.
> I considered reselling to neighbors, but back then expensive gigabit
> options probably weren't too attractive to general consumers in 2003.
> I stuck with my cable modem, they didn't pay that well.
>
> Today that would probably be equivalent to a 10GbE+ drop to your
> house, but at scale of cost most likely. Resell that to your
> neighbors for some premium bandwidth, everyone wins, but presumes your
> neighbors aren't all luddites. Some rural communities are doing this,
> when AT&T and others aren't shutting them down.
>
> -mb
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 9:19 AM Bob Elzer via PLUG-discuss
> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
> <mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org>> wrote:
>
> I'd brush up on fiber splicing lol
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 1:40 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss
> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
> <mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org>> wrote:
>
> AT&T is still fscked up. The tech came out today and told me
> that the cutoff for the service is 4800 feet and I'm 5136 feet
> from the box the modem talks to. He ran some test anyway and
> confirmed it's not available. He told me he has heard of no
> plans to bring fiber to my neighborhood, but said it is
> available in a small town 5 miles up the road from me in one
> direction. 3 miles down the road in the other direction is a
> subdivision that has it. The fiber runs next to the highway
> less than a hundred yards from here. I guess it's time to see
> what other options if any are available.
>
> On 8/16/20 10:39 AM, Michael Butash wrote:
>> I think it mostly comes down to the fact that they can only
>> really guarantee 2 or 4 wires to a premise for residential
>> telco, probably more modern deployments a full 8 wires (ala
>> CatX), though their traditional copper distribution isn't
>> built for it unless commercial (their big PED on the roads
>> your neighborhood comes back to. Probably something in the
>> telcordia standards back to ma bell days that says that is
>> just how it is. Since the plants are non-shielded,
>> non-twisted pair cabling too, it can only modulate so high,
>> particularly when poorly run/done, which is why you're stuck
>> at 12mbps.
>>
>> If they had to change your home copper, they'd just run
>> fiber, neither will happen likely.
>>
>> The DSL bonding is already a hack to get more bandwidth when
>> DSL itself is stuck in time now at raw theoretical limits.
>> Combining more physical channels as these were would be
>> trivial, if copper were available, and telcos wanted to
>> support it. Someone would need to make the modem too.
>> Technically cable modems do this, literally taking "channels"
>> or slices or spectrum on the wire, and load-balancing them
>> internally, up to 24 or 32 channels for multi-gig
>> capabilities. Same with ethernet, taking 8 into a
>> port-channel and balancing across them, whether 100 megabit
>> or 400 gigabit ethernet.
>>
>> AT&T is the most ghetto provider out there still, and always
>> has been imho. Moving to San Jose in '99, there was AT&T
>> Cable TV installed by the owners, which consisted of 2x of
>> your standard coax ala modern cable from the outside, and
>> required a physical a/b switch box to switch between 13
>> channels on one, and 13 channels on another. First I looked
>> at it, and was confused enough I had to call them and ask wtf
>> the cable "channels" worked to realize just how bad it was,
>> and I then worked for the original @home cable isp company
>> then supporting AT&T cable modems! The images were even
>> snowy, the service was so bad even a tech couldn't (read:
>> wouldn't) improve. When I asked about a cable modem, they
>> laughed at me, so I had to get DSL (phat 1.5mbps then),
>> disconnected the useless cable tv (yay usenet
>> alt.binaries.video even then), and threw up a finger to AT&T.
>>
>> I can only imagine how bad AT&T's DSL is if they couldn't
>> figure out even coax. My experience supporting their
>> customers for Cable Modem data in '99, relatively new tech
>> then, wasn't much better, as if the cable plant to your house
>> was broke, it tended to just stay broke despite our rolling
>> their techs to fix it. Then they'd get angry at us for doing
>> so and tell us to stop rolling so many trucks to fix things.
>>
>> Sigh.
>>
>> Having grown up in Phoenix where Dimension, and later Cox
>> actually had their shit (relatively) together, this was an
>> inconceivable atrocity but exactly what I'd expect of AT&T.
>> Thanks to them (and Comcast, all the media cartels now
>> really) owning the FCC now with your tax dollars, it'll
>> never, ever, get better either. Good thing Net Neutrality
>> and consumer rights weren't really needed after all!
>>
>> -mb
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 12:42 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss
>> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>> <mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org>> wrote:
>>
>> 150 Mbps, you're lucky. Here AT&T has to bond 2 pairs
>> so I can get 25 Mbps. At least it's not comcast. I
>> wonder how many pairs they could bond. Is there a
>> technical limit or is it just a matter of how many they
>> want to bond? As more people abandon landlines, that
>> leaves more capacity for AT&T to bond multiple pairs for
>> internet customers.
>>
>> On 8/10/20 11:21 AM, Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>> So I went through this moving from Cox to CenturyLink,
>>> and pretty much as described, fairly painless.
>>>
>>> <tldr>
>>>
>>> I had scheduled a CL tech to install me for new service
>>> a few years ago, and we first hit the outside where CL
>>> ran their cabling in. It was an ancient telephony
>>> distribution from the 90's, and I've never had a
>>> land-line in my house since owning it in 2002. My house
>>> built in 95 at least used cat5 or like, so I have 4
>>> pairs to every room, so 2 pairs I need was just fine for
>>> bonded DSL He ripped out the old block, removing the
>>> house cabling but the one, and isolated the particular
>>> line we needed to my office where the modem lives, added
>>> an approved jack, done. Bonded dsl is 2x 2-wire
>>> channels, and they essentially load-balance 75+75mbps
>>> channels. I have tested this to n-by gigabit upstreams.
>>>
>>> Phone only guarantees 2 wires are available, so telcos
>>> built on this 100 years ago are a bit assed-out on
>>> passable high-frequency modulation schemas in use for
>>> data and other things to move beyond where they're at.
>>> DSL makes up for this, particularly when double up on
>>> wires it gets better, but still unshielded and prone to
>>> breakdown. Problem is mostly it isn't shielded, thus
>>> capable of very high frequency modulation ala
>>> Cable/DOCSIS, so it will never go much further than it
>>> has today whereas Cable scales to gigabits with
>>> channelization and QAM modulation at 32bit rates.
>>>
>>> VDSL tech is capable of roughly 75mbps per channel, and
>>> 2x of these get you to around CL's bonded DSL limits.
>>> This also includes your distance limitations to your
>>> local DSLAM, or regional router that terminates your
>>> data that degrades this eventually further you are from
>>> it, so it's a bit tricky. It's been stuck here for
>>> years, and pretty much at life end. This is why my
>>> cousin living half a mile from me can only get 75mbps
>>> from CL and I can with bonded @150mbps here. Old crap
>>> network there.
>>>
>>> Fiber, particularly Single Mode, gives you whatever to
>>> ~100GbE, but depends on how your provider does low-rate
>>> Passive Optical Networking (PON) today for residential
>>> fiber. Not quite the same as a business data network,
>>> but any fiber is better than copper networks.
>>>
>>> Why Centurylink's only hope for the future is fiber vs.
>>> copper in new builds. I like my 25yr old house still, so
>>> no fiber for me ever. Unless I street cut my block for
>>> fiber myself, which I've considered, just need to get my
>>> neighbors to buy into me as their new gigabit isp. ;)
>>>
>>> -mb
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 1:27 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss
>>> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>>> <mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ok. I won't complain if I have to go out and buy a
>>> 4 conductor phone cord.
>>>
>>> On 8/7/20 9:05 AM, Stephen Partington wrote:
>>>> My understanding of this is that they will activate
>>>> the second pair that is commonly used in the RJ-43
>>>> port in your wall. This will allow 2 lines active
>>>> to the device.
>>>>
>>>> Changes inside might need to happen if your
>>>> residence does not have 4 wire (2 line)
>>>> compatibility. (IE 2 pairs to the jack vs 1 pair)
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:10 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss
>>>> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>>>> <mailto:plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Where I live, I get AT&T for my DSL service.
>>>> I've signed up for an
>>>> upgrade from 10 Mbps to 25. I finally got
>>>> someone there who would tell
>>>> me why a technician visit is required for the
>>>> upgrade. They're bonding 2
>>>> pairs to supply the faster speed here. I've
>>>> read up online about DSL
>>>> bonding. I understand that one pair will carry
>>>> some of the data, and
>>>> the other pair will carry some. But one thing I
>>>> didn't find out was
>>>> whether or not anything will change between the
>>>> wall jack and the
>>>> modem. Is everything done outside or do they
>>>> have to come inside? I
>>>> currently have a 2 conductor cord connecting my
>>>> modem to the wall jack.
>>>> Will that have to be replaced with a 4
>>>> conductor cord? Do they install
>>>> an extra box outside or inside? I guess all
>>>> will be answered on the
>>>> 18th when the guy is scheduled to be here.
>>>> I'm really curious how this
>>>> works.
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -
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>>>> <mailto:PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org>
>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your
>>>> mail settings:
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock,
>>>> will prevent you from rolling over and going back
>>>> to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>>>>
>>>> Stephen
>>>>
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