comcast is available in this area.  They're offering speeds up to 200 Mbps.  As soon as the AT&T guy left, I went to Comcast's site and signed up for 25Mbps service which costs the same as the 10 - 12 AT&T offers.  I'll have to watch the comcast bill. When I had them before, they liked to sneak in extra charges that weren't supposed to be there.  They would remove them when I called to complain.  This time I won't be using their tv service. I put up an antenna and I use locast.org. On 8/20/20 12:18 PM, Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss wrote: > I'm not sure I could live somewhere with crap internet, I would > probably go about forming some sort of local isp of sorts if enough > folks around to be worth it.  It's not exactly hard, backward telcos > and cable companies can figure it out, it's all capital cost up front > and who pays for it, ideally more than just you. > > Circa 2003 at cox business, we had some baller customers with DS3's to > their house (one ran an isp in his basement), which really meant we > installed an OC3 fiber node there, and gave them a third of it.  These > were maybe $2000-3000/mo circuits, but the construction to get fiber > to their crib alone might be $30-50k.  One customer in the middle of a > lake community was more to build into.  Either they lock you into a > 5yr or more contract to make that construction cost back, or you pay > it up front. > > Back then, I worked a lot with the project group that did > construction, so I sat down with someone and we looked at getting > fiber to my house for some baller service myself, ideally with some > employee discount...  They estimated roughly $35k in cost alone for > construction, including construction street cuts to bury fiber, > permitting, etc, let alone service, and mine wasn't terribly complex.  > I considered reselling to neighbors, but back then expensive gigabit > options probably weren't too attractive to general consumers in 2003.  > I stuck with my cable modem, they didn't pay that well. > > Today that would probably be equivalent to a 10GbE+ drop to your > house, but at scale of cost most likely.  Resell that to your > neighbors for some premium bandwidth, everyone wins, but presumes your > neighbors aren't all luddites.  Some rural communities are doing this, > when AT&T and others aren't shutting them down. > > -mb > > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 9:19 AM Bob Elzer via PLUG-discuss > > wrote: > > I'd brush up on fiber splicing  lol > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 1:40 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss > > wrote: > > AT&T is still fscked up.  The tech came out today and told me > that the cutoff for the service is 4800 feet and I'm 5136 feet > from the box the modem talks to.   He ran some test anyway and > confirmed it's not available.  He told me he has heard of no > plans to bring fiber to my neighborhood, but said it is > available in a small town 5 miles up the road from me in one > direction.  3 miles down the road in the other direction is a > subdivision that has it.  The fiber runs next to the highway > less than a hundred yards from here.  I guess it's time to see > what other options if any are available. > > On 8/16/20 10:39 AM, Michael Butash wrote: >> I think it mostly comes down to the fact that they can only >> really guarantee 2 or 4 wires to a premise for residential >> telco, probably more modern deployments a full 8 wires (ala >> CatX), though their traditional copper distribution isn't >> built for it unless commercial (their big PED on the roads >> your neighborhood comes back to. Probably something in the >> telcordia standards back to ma bell days that says that is >> just how it is. Since the plants are non-shielded, >> non-twisted pair cabling too, it can only modulate so high, >> particularly when poorly run/done, which is why you're stuck >> at 12mbps. >> >> If they had to change your home copper, they'd just run >> fiber, neither will happen likely. >> >> The DSL bonding is already a hack to get more bandwidth when >> DSL itself is stuck in time now at raw theoretical limits.  >> Combining more physical channels as these were would be >> trivial, if copper were available, and telcos wanted to >> support it. Someone would need to make the modem too. >> Technically cable modems do this, literally taking "channels" >> or slices or spectrum on the wire, and load-balancing them >> internally, up to 24 or 32 channels for multi-gig >> capabilities.  Same with ethernet, taking 8 into a >> port-channel and balancing across them, whether 100 megabit >> or 400 gigabit ethernet. >> >> AT&T is the most ghetto provider out there still, and always >> has been imho.  Moving to San Jose in '99, there was AT&T >> Cable TV installed by the owners, which consisted of 2x of >> your standard coax ala modern cable from the outside, and >> required a physical a/b switch box to switch between 13 >> channels on one, and 13 channels on another.  First I looked >> at it, and was confused enough I had to call them and ask wtf >> the cable "channels" worked to realize just how bad it was, >> and I then worked for the original @home cable isp company >> then supporting AT&T cable modems! The images were even >> snowy, the service was so bad even a tech couldn't (read: >> wouldn't) improve. When I asked about a cable modem, they >> laughed at me, so I had to get DSL (phat 1.5mbps then), >> disconnected the useless cable tv (yay usenet >> alt.binaries.video even then), and threw up a finger to AT&T. >> >> I can only imagine how bad AT&T's DSL is if they couldn't >> figure out even coax.  My experience supporting their >> customers for Cable Modem data in '99, relatively new tech >> then, wasn't much better, as if the cable plant to your house >> was broke, it tended to just stay broke despite our rolling >> their techs to fix it.  Then they'd get angry at us for doing >> so and tell us to stop rolling so many trucks to fix things. >> >> Sigh. >> >> Having grown up in Phoenix where Dimension, and later Cox >> actually had their shit (relatively) together, this was an >> inconceivable atrocity but exactly what I'd expect of AT&T.  >> Thanks to them (and Comcast, all the media cartels now >> really) owning the FCC now with your tax dollars, it'll >> never, ever, get better either.  Good thing Net Neutrality >> and consumer rights weren't really needed after all! >> >> -mb >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 12:42 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss >> > > wrote: >> >> 150 Mbps, you're lucky.  Here AT&T has to bond  2 pairs >> so I can get 25 Mbps.    At least it's not comcast.  I >> wonder how many pairs they could bond.  Is there a >> technical limit or is it just a matter of how many they >> want to bond?  As more people abandon landlines, that >> leaves more capacity for AT&T to bond multiple pairs for >> internet customers. >> >> On 8/10/20 11:21 AM, Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss wrote: >>> So I went through this moving from Cox to CenturyLink, >>> and pretty much as described, fairly painless. >>> >>> >>> >>> I had scheduled a CL tech to install me for new service >>> a few years ago, and we first hit the outside where CL >>> ran their cabling in.  It was an ancient telephony >>> distribution from the 90's, and I've never had a >>> land-line in my house since owning it in 2002.  My house >>> built in 95 at least used cat5 or like, so I have 4 >>> pairs to every room, so 2 pairs I need was just fine for >>> bonded DSL  He ripped out the old block, removing the >>> house cabling but the one, and isolated the particular >>> line we needed to my office where the modem lives, added >>> an approved jack, done.  Bonded dsl is 2x 2-wire >>> channels, and they essentially load-balance 75+75mbps >>> channels.  I have tested this to n-by gigabit upstreams. >>> >>> Phone only guarantees 2 wires are available, so telcos >>> built on this 100 years ago are a bit assed-out on >>> passable high-frequency modulation schemas in use for >>> data and other things to move beyond where they're at.  >>> DSL makes up for this, particularly when double up on >>> wires it gets better, but still unshielded and prone to >>> breakdown.  Problem is mostly it isn't shielded, thus >>> capable of very high frequency modulation ala >>> Cable/DOCSIS, so it will never go much further than it >>> has today whereas Cable scales to gigabits with >>> channelization and QAM modulation at 32bit rates. >>> >>> VDSL tech is capable of roughly 75mbps per channel, and >>> 2x of these get you to around CL's bonded DSL limits.  >>> This also includes your distance limitations to your >>> local DSLAM, or regional router that terminates your >>> data that degrades this eventually further you are from >>> it, so it's a bit tricky.  It's been stuck here for >>> years, and pretty much at life end. This is why my >>> cousin living half a mile from me can only get 75mbps >>> from CL and I can with bonded @150mbps here.  Old crap >>> network there. >>> >>> Fiber, particularly Single Mode, gives you whatever to >>> ~100GbE, but depends on how your provider does low-rate >>> Passive Optical Networking (PON) today for residential >>> fiber.  Not quite the same as a business data network, >>> but any fiber is better than copper networks. >>> >>> Why Centurylink's only hope for the future is fiber vs. >>> copper in new builds. I like my 25yr old house still, so >>> no fiber for me ever.  Unless I street cut my block for >>> fiber myself, which I've considered, just need to get my >>> neighbors to buy into me as their new gigabit isp. ;) >>> >>> -mb >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 1:27 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> Ok.  I won't complain if I have to go out and buy a >>> 4 conductor phone cord. >>> >>> On 8/7/20 9:05 AM, Stephen Partington wrote: >>>> My understanding of this is that they will activate >>>> the second pair that is commonly used in the RJ-43 >>>> port in your wall. This will allow 2 lines active >>>> to the device. >>>> >>>> Changes inside might need to happen if your >>>> residence does not have 4 wire (2 line) >>>> compatibility. (IE 2 pairs to the jack vs 1 pair) >>>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:10 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss >>>> >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Where I live, I get AT&T for my DSL service.  >>>> I've signed up for an >>>> upgrade from 10 Mbps to 25.  I finally got >>>> someone there who would tell >>>> me why a technician visit is required for the >>>> upgrade. They're bonding 2 >>>> pairs to supply the faster speed here.  I've >>>> read up online about DSL >>>> bonding.  I understand that one pair will carry >>>> some of the data, and >>>> the other pair will carry some. But one thing I >>>> didn't find out was >>>> whether or not anything will change between the >>>> wall jack and the >>>> modem.  Is everything done outside or do they >>>> have to come inside?  I >>>> currently have a 2 conductor cord connecting my >>>> modem to the wall jack. >>>> Will that have to be replaced with a 4 >>>> conductor cord?  Do they install >>>> an extra box outside or inside?  I guess all >>>> will be answered on the >>>> 18th when the guy is scheduled to be here.   >>>> I'm really curious how this >>>> works. >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>>> PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your >>>> mail settings: >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, >>>> will prevent you from rolling over and going back >>>> to sleep after you hit the snooze button. >>>> >>>> Stephen >>>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >>> PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>> settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list -PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - >> PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss