That seems to be the grand irony of fiber - you can have a nationwide
backbone with thousands of Gb/s of bandwidth running on your street, and as
you said Jim - be a hundred yards short of 25 Mbps. I don't buy a ton of
the 5G *we're going to fix all the things *but if fixed broadband could
become a reality in the mid-band spectrum, there might be a new last mile
in town (and I would move much farther out to the country).
- Thomas Scott |
mr.thomas.scott@gmail.com
On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 4:40 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss <
plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
> AT&T is still fscked up. The tech came out today and told me that the
> cutoff for the service is 4800 feet and I'm 5136 feet from the box the
> modem talks to. He ran some test anyway and confirmed it's not
> available. He told me he has heard of no plans to bring fiber to my
> neighborhood, but said it is available in a small town 5 miles up the road
> from me in one direction. 3 miles down the road in the other direction is
> a subdivision that has it. The fiber runs next to the highway less than a
> hundred yards from here. I guess it's time to see what other options if
> any are available.
> On 8/16/20 10:39 AM, Michael Butash wrote:
>
> I think it mostly comes down to the fact that they can only really
> guarantee 2 or 4 wires to a premise for residential telco, probably more
> modern deployments a full 8 wires (ala CatX), though their traditional
> copper distribution isn't built for it unless commercial (their big PED on
> the roads your neighborhood comes back to. Probably something in the
> telcordia standards back to ma bell days that says that is just how it is.
> Since the plants are non-shielded, non-twisted pair cabling too, it can
> only modulate so high, particularly when poorly run/done, which is why
> you're stuck at 12mbps.
>
> If they had to change your home copper, they'd just run fiber, neither
> will happen likely.
>
> The DSL bonding is already a hack to get more bandwidth when DSL itself is
> stuck in time now at raw theoretical limits. Combining more physical
> channels as these were would be trivial, if copper were available, and
> telcos wanted to support it. Someone would need to make the modem too.
> Technically cable modems do this, literally taking "channels" or slices or
> spectrum on the wire, and load-balancing them internally, up to 24 or 32
> channels for multi-gig capabilities. Same with ethernet, taking 8 into a
> port-channel and balancing across them, whether 100 megabit or 400 gigabit
> ethernet.
>
> AT&T is the most ghetto provider out there still, and always has been
> imho. Moving to San Jose in '99, there was AT&T Cable TV installed by the
> owners, which consisted of 2x of your standard coax ala modern cable from
> the outside, and required a physical a/b switch box to switch between 13
> channels on one, and 13 channels on another. First I looked at it, and was
> confused enough I had to call them and ask wtf the cable "channels" worked
> to realize just how bad it was, and I then worked for the original @home
> cable isp company then supporting AT&T cable modems! The images were even
> snowy, the service was so bad even a tech couldn't (read: wouldn't)
> improve. When I asked about a cable modem, they laughed at me, so I had to
> get DSL (phat 1.5mbps then), disconnected the useless cable tv (yay usenet
> alt.binaries.video even then), and threw up a finger to AT&T.
>
> I can only imagine how bad AT&T's DSL is if they couldn't figure out even
> coax. My experience supporting their customers for Cable Modem data in
> '99, relatively new tech then, wasn't much better, as if the cable plant to
> your house was broke, it tended to just stay broke despite our rolling
> their techs to fix it. Then they'd get angry at us for doing so and tell
> us to stop rolling so many trucks to fix things.
>
> Sigh.
>
> Having grown up in Phoenix where Dimension, and later Cox actually had
> their shit (relatively) together, this was an inconceivable atrocity but
> exactly what I'd expect of AT&T. Thanks to them (and Comcast, all the
> media cartels now really) owning the FCC now with your tax dollars, it'll
> never, ever, get better either. Good thing Net Neutrality and consumer
> rights weren't really needed after all!
>
> -mb
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 12:42 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss <
> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>
>> 150 Mbps, you're lucky. Here AT&T has to bond 2 pairs so I can get 25
>> Mbps. At least it's not comcast. I wonder how many pairs they could
>> bond. Is there a technical limit or is it just a matter of how many they
>> want to bond? As more people abandon landlines, that leaves more capacity
>> for AT&T to bond multiple pairs for internet customers.
>> On 8/10/20 11:21 AM, Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>>
>> So I went through this moving from Cox to CenturyLink, and pretty much as
>> described, fairly painless.
>>
>> <tldr>
>>
>> I had scheduled a CL tech to install me for new service a few years ago,
>> and we first hit the outside where CL ran their cabling in. It was an
>> ancient telephony distribution from the 90's, and I've never had a
>> land-line in my house since owning it in 2002. My house built in 95 at
>> least used cat5 or like, so I have 4 pairs to every room, so 2 pairs I need
>> was just fine for bonded DSL He ripped out the old block, removing the
>> house cabling but the one, and isolated the particular line we needed to my
>> office where the modem lives, added an approved jack, done. Bonded dsl is
>> 2x 2-wire channels, and they essentially load-balance 75+75mbps channels.
>> I have tested this to n-by gigabit upstreams.
>>
>> Phone only guarantees 2 wires are available, so telcos built on this 100
>> years ago are a bit assed-out on passable high-frequency modulation schemas
>> in use for data and other things to move beyond where they're at. DSL
>> makes up for this, particularly when double up on wires it gets better, but
>> still unshielded and prone to breakdown. Problem is mostly it isn't
>> shielded, thus capable of very high frequency modulation ala Cable/DOCSIS,
>> so it will never go much further than it has today whereas Cable scales to
>> gigabits with channelization and QAM modulation at 32bit rates.
>>
>> VDSL tech is capable of roughly 75mbps per channel, and 2x of these get
>> you to around CL's bonded DSL limits. This also includes your distance
>> limitations to your local DSLAM, or regional router that terminates your
>> data that degrades this eventually further you are from it, so it's a bit
>> tricky. It's been stuck here for years, and pretty much at life end. This
>> is why my cousin living half a mile from me can only get 75mbps from CL and
>> I can with bonded @150mbps here. Old crap network there.
>>
>> Fiber, particularly Single Mode, gives you whatever to ~100GbE, but
>> depends on how your provider does low-rate Passive Optical Networking (PON)
>> today for residential fiber. Not quite the same as a business data
>> network, but any fiber is better than copper networks.
>>
>> Why Centurylink's only hope for the future is fiber vs. copper in new
>> builds. I like my 25yr old house still, so no fiber for me ever. Unless I
>> street cut my block for fiber myself, which I've considered, just need to
>> get my neighbors to buy into me as their new gigabit isp. ;)
>>
>> -mb
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 1:27 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss <
>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Ok. I won't complain if I have to go out and buy a 4 conductor phone
>>> cord.
>>> On 8/7/20 9:05 AM, Stephen Partington wrote:
>>>
>>> My understanding of this is that they will activate the second pair that
>>> is commonly used in the RJ-43 port in your wall. This will allow 2 lines
>>> active to the device.
>>>
>>> Changes inside might need to happen if your residence does not have 4
>>> wire (2 line) compatibility. (IE 2 pairs to the jack vs 1 pair)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:10 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss <
>>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Where I live, I get AT&T for my DSL service. I've signed up for an
>>>> upgrade from 10 Mbps to 25. I finally got someone there who would tell
>>>> me why a technician visit is required for the upgrade. They're bonding
>>>> 2
>>>> pairs to supply the faster speed here. I've read up online about DSL
>>>> bonding. I understand that one pair will carry some of the data, and
>>>> the other pair will carry some. But one thing I didn't find out was
>>>> whether or not anything will change between the wall jack and the
>>>> modem. Is everything done outside or do they have to come inside? I
>>>> currently have a 2 conductor cord connecting my modem to the wall
>>>> jack.
>>>> Will that have to be replaced with a 4 conductor cord? Do they install
>>>> an extra box outside or inside? I guess all will be answered on the
>>>> 18th when the guy is scheduled to be here. I'm really curious how
>>>> this
>>>> works.
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from
>>> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>>
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>>
>>
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