That seems to be the grand irony of fiber - you can have a nationwide backbone with thousands of Gb/s of bandwidth running on your street, and as you said Jim - be a hundred yards short of 25 Mbps. I don't buy a ton of the 5G *we're going to fix all the things *but if fixed broadband could become a reality in the mid-band spectrum, there might be a new last mile in town (and I would move much farther out to the country). - Thomas Scott | mr.thomas.scott@gmail.com On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 4:40 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > AT&T is still fscked up. The tech came out today and told me that the > cutoff for the service is 4800 feet and I'm 5136 feet from the box the > modem talks to. He ran some test anyway and confirmed it's not > available. He told me he has heard of no plans to bring fiber to my > neighborhood, but said it is available in a small town 5 miles up the road > from me in one direction. 3 miles down the road in the other direction is > a subdivision that has it. The fiber runs next to the highway less than a > hundred yards from here. I guess it's time to see what other options if > any are available. > On 8/16/20 10:39 AM, Michael Butash wrote: > > I think it mostly comes down to the fact that they can only really > guarantee 2 or 4 wires to a premise for residential telco, probably more > modern deployments a full 8 wires (ala CatX), though their traditional > copper distribution isn't built for it unless commercial (their big PED on > the roads your neighborhood comes back to. Probably something in the > telcordia standards back to ma bell days that says that is just how it is. > Since the plants are non-shielded, non-twisted pair cabling too, it can > only modulate so high, particularly when poorly run/done, which is why > you're stuck at 12mbps. > > If they had to change your home copper, they'd just run fiber, neither > will happen likely. > > The DSL bonding is already a hack to get more bandwidth when DSL itself is > stuck in time now at raw theoretical limits. Combining more physical > channels as these were would be trivial, if copper were available, and > telcos wanted to support it. Someone would need to make the modem too. > Technically cable modems do this, literally taking "channels" or slices or > spectrum on the wire, and load-balancing them internally, up to 24 or 32 > channels for multi-gig capabilities. Same with ethernet, taking 8 into a > port-channel and balancing across them, whether 100 megabit or 400 gigabit > ethernet. > > AT&T is the most ghetto provider out there still, and always has been > imho. Moving to San Jose in '99, there was AT&T Cable TV installed by the > owners, which consisted of 2x of your standard coax ala modern cable from > the outside, and required a physical a/b switch box to switch between 13 > channels on one, and 13 channels on another. First I looked at it, and was > confused enough I had to call them and ask wtf the cable "channels" worked > to realize just how bad it was, and I then worked for the original @home > cable isp company then supporting AT&T cable modems! The images were even > snowy, the service was so bad even a tech couldn't (read: wouldn't) > improve. When I asked about a cable modem, they laughed at me, so I had to > get DSL (phat 1.5mbps then), disconnected the useless cable tv (yay usenet > alt.binaries.video even then), and threw up a finger to AT&T. > > I can only imagine how bad AT&T's DSL is if they couldn't figure out even > coax. My experience supporting their customers for Cable Modem data in > '99, relatively new tech then, wasn't much better, as if the cable plant to > your house was broke, it tended to just stay broke despite our rolling > their techs to fix it. Then they'd get angry at us for doing so and tell > us to stop rolling so many trucks to fix things. > > Sigh. > > Having grown up in Phoenix where Dimension, and later Cox actually had > their shit (relatively) together, this was an inconceivable atrocity but > exactly what I'd expect of AT&T. Thanks to them (and Comcast, all the > media cartels now really) owning the FCC now with your tax dollars, it'll > never, ever, get better either. Good thing Net Neutrality and consumer > rights weren't really needed after all! > > -mb > > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 12:42 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > >> 150 Mbps, you're lucky. Here AT&T has to bond 2 pairs so I can get 25 >> Mbps. At least it's not comcast. I wonder how many pairs they could >> bond. Is there a technical limit or is it just a matter of how many they >> want to bond? As more people abandon landlines, that leaves more capacity >> for AT&T to bond multiple pairs for internet customers. >> On 8/10/20 11:21 AM, Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss wrote: >> >> So I went through this moving from Cox to CenturyLink, and pretty much as >> described, fairly painless. >> >> >> >> I had scheduled a CL tech to install me for new service a few years ago, >> and we first hit the outside where CL ran their cabling in. It was an >> ancient telephony distribution from the 90's, and I've never had a >> land-line in my house since owning it in 2002. My house built in 95 at >> least used cat5 or like, so I have 4 pairs to every room, so 2 pairs I need >> was just fine for bonded DSL He ripped out the old block, removing the >> house cabling but the one, and isolated the particular line we needed to my >> office where the modem lives, added an approved jack, done. Bonded dsl is >> 2x 2-wire channels, and they essentially load-balance 75+75mbps channels. >> I have tested this to n-by gigabit upstreams. >> >> Phone only guarantees 2 wires are available, so telcos built on this 100 >> years ago are a bit assed-out on passable high-frequency modulation schemas >> in use for data and other things to move beyond where they're at. DSL >> makes up for this, particularly when double up on wires it gets better, but >> still unshielded and prone to breakdown. Problem is mostly it isn't >> shielded, thus capable of very high frequency modulation ala Cable/DOCSIS, >> so it will never go much further than it has today whereas Cable scales to >> gigabits with channelization and QAM modulation at 32bit rates. >> >> VDSL tech is capable of roughly 75mbps per channel, and 2x of these get >> you to around CL's bonded DSL limits. This also includes your distance >> limitations to your local DSLAM, or regional router that terminates your >> data that degrades this eventually further you are from it, so it's a bit >> tricky. It's been stuck here for years, and pretty much at life end. This >> is why my cousin living half a mile from me can only get 75mbps from CL and >> I can with bonded @150mbps here. Old crap network there. >> >> Fiber, particularly Single Mode, gives you whatever to ~100GbE, but >> depends on how your provider does low-rate Passive Optical Networking (PON) >> today for residential fiber. Not quite the same as a business data >> network, but any fiber is better than copper networks. >> >> Why Centurylink's only hope for the future is fiber vs. copper in new >> builds. I like my 25yr old house still, so no fiber for me ever. Unless I >> street cut my block for fiber myself, which I've considered, just need to >> get my neighbors to buy into me as their new gigabit isp. ;) >> >> -mb >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 1:27 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss < >> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >> >>> Ok. I won't complain if I have to go out and buy a 4 conductor phone >>> cord. >>> On 8/7/20 9:05 AM, Stephen Partington wrote: >>> >>> My understanding of this is that they will activate the second pair that >>> is commonly used in the RJ-43 port in your wall. This will allow 2 lines >>> active to the device. >>> >>> Changes inside might need to happen if your residence does not have 4 >>> wire (2 line) compatibility. (IE 2 pairs to the jack vs 1 pair) >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:10 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss < >>> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Where I live, I get AT&T for my DSL service. I've signed up for an >>>> upgrade from 10 Mbps to 25. I finally got someone there who would tell >>>> me why a technician visit is required for the upgrade. They're bonding >>>> 2 >>>> pairs to supply the faster speed here. I've read up online about DSL >>>> bonding. I understand that one pair will carry some of the data, and >>>> the other pair will carry some. But one thing I didn't find out was >>>> whether or not anything will change between the wall jack and the >>>> modem. Is everything done outside or do they have to come inside? I >>>> currently have a 2 conductor cord connecting my modem to the wall >>>> jack. >>>> Will that have to be replaced with a 4 conductor cord? Do they install >>>> an extra box outside or inside? I guess all will be answered on the >>>> 18th when the guy is scheduled to be here. I'm really curious how >>>> this >>>> works. >>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from >>> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. >>> >>> Stephen >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss