David,
You always have great insight into the tech community.
Keith
On 2015-07-23 06:46, David Schwartz wrote:
> The current process of matching resumes with job reqs passed from
> managers to HR to recruiters / web sites to developers and back is
> totally broken.
>
> We have hiring managers on one end who have been out of the loop for a
> while and don’t seem to understand a lot of the tech used by the
> people they manage.
>
> They write a job req and give it to HR.
>
> The HR people are handling job reqs for the entire company and tend to
> not be very well-versed in tech either. They “polish up” the ads a bit
> then post them online.
>
> Recruiters get hold of them and tweak them a bit.
>
> Then actual devs read them and cannot figure out why a job looking for
> a “programmer” requires 3+ years working with the entire Adobe
> Creative Suite including Photoshop and Fireworks, and why they say
> they’re building a CMS but there’s no requirement for any database
> experience.
>
> So someone perfectly suited for the job responds and gets rejected
> because they don’t have the requisite “design” expertise.
>
> Last week I saw a job req for a junior web developer that requires,
> “extensive experience with Adobe Creative Suite, php, perl, python,
> MySQL (including stored procs), database design and administration,
> Apache, TomCat, and HTML5/CSS3."
>
> There was a position on Dice looking for “a minimum of 5 years of
> demonstrable experience writing apps in Swift”.
>
> I got an email from a recruiter last week (a young woman who probably
> recently left a phone sales job with AmEx or Vanguard) who said, “I’ve
> got a requirement for someone with extensive C++ programming
> experience, including OOA and OOD. I don’t see a lot of people with
> OOA and OOD experience listed in their resume, so you probably have a
> really great shot at this position!” [never heard back]
>
> Job req stated: “Java experience helpful”. Me: “What version of Java
> are they using?” Recruiter: “They just said Java. Does it matter what
> version?”
>
> Recruiter: “I see you have some php experience in your background. We
> have a web developer position that I think you’d be a great fit for.”
> Me: “Do they require any graphic arts or visual design experience?”
> Recruiter: “No, they don’t mention that.” Job req: “Requires: 5+ years
> Adobe Creative Suite, including Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Fireworks,
> etc.”
>
> Job req: “We’re looking for a seasoned senior devleoper with 10+ years
> of C++ expertise.” Recruiter: “They’re looking for someone with recent
> C++ experience; you haven’t worked with it in several years.” Me:
> “What version of C++ are they using?” Recruiter: “It doesn’t say…”
> Next day: “I checked with the manager and he said they’re using
> C++99.” Me: “I worked with that version for quite a while.” Recruiter:
> “I’m sorry, they really want someone with recent experience.”
>
> HR: “We’re looking for someone with experience in Java, specifically
> lambdas and closures.” Me: “So you’re using Java 8?” HR: “No, this is
> for a Java 6 role. But you have to have experience with lambdas and
> closures. I don’t see that on your resume.” [Lambdas and closures are
> mostly new to Java 8, and not present in Java 6.]
>
> My question: How in the hell does anybody get hired ANYWHERE without
> flat out LYING about stuff on their resume?
>
> Everybody is hiring for experience with the latest tooks and
> buzzwords. Nobody cares that you’ve got 10+ years of OOA/OOD/OOP
> expertise if you cannot write code in the latest language du jour with
> your eyes closed. They prefer college kids with no depth of experience
> but one semester of some language over senior people with tons of
> experience and nothing as current as the college kid has. And from
> what I can tell, I could spend the next two years working with
> everything under the sun on my own, and nobody will give a rip because
> I have no “on the job experience” with any of it.
>
> It’s really messed up. When I go to job fairs there are mostly
> foreigners and older folks. And recruiters basically admitting that
> nobody is hiring into junior roles to learn new stuff except college
> grads. Everybody says they want to hire someone who can “hit the
> ground running”, which makes no sense to me because I’ve never had a
> job where I didn’t have to spend several weeks (if not months)
> learning their software apps first (mostly by reading the code b/c
> they don’t like their devs wasting time writing documentation).
>
> -David
>
>
>
>> On Jul 22, 2015, at 10:40 PM, der.hans <PLUGd@LuftHans.com> wrote:
>>
>> Am 22. Jul, 2015 schwätzte Nathan England so:
>>
>> moin moin,
>>
>>> The company I currently work for has 3 developer position openings
>>> and in 4 months we've had only two candidates apply. That seems to me
>>> a real need for developers. Either that or the job description is too
>>> complicated for them to get past.
>>
>> ( None of this is pointing at any specific person or company, it just
>> seems like the best place in the thread to mention it. )
>>
>> There's an open secret about tech unemployment, it's been really low
>> for
>> years, even when general unemployment was really high.
>>
>> Due to this apparently being a secret, we get job descriptions that
>> list
>> every technology someone can cut and paste from Internet search
>> results.
>>
>> But, since tech unemployment is actually low, it's hard to find
>> candidates.
>>
>> In tech we're also usually looking for specialists. Do welding
>> companies
>> ask for someone expert in one particular welder? Are there dozens of
>> brands of welders to choose from such that skills ( from the viewpoint
>> of
>> HR ) don't transfer to another brand of welder? Sorry, you only know
>> java
>> welders...
>>
>> So, we have a lack of candidates because people have jobs and don't
>> need to look around and also because job descriptions are searching
>> for
>> unrealistic lists of skills while simultaneously focusing on narrow
>> fields.
>>
>> Then, when candidates do appear, many get overlooked due to the narrow
>> field view or lack of buzzwork bingo on their resumes. The habitually
>> unemployed or new to the field seem are really up against heavy odds,
>> even
>> in the low unemployment state we've been in for years.
>>
>> Even an expert will have a learning curve to learn how your
>> environment
>> does it. The example I like to give is that if you hire Larry Wall to
>> join
>> your Perl team ( or Guido von Rossum for Python or Rasmus Lerdorf for
>> PHP... ), he will need time to learn how your team works. Granted, if
>> he
>> then makes suggestions your team should probably listen intently :).
>>
>> For entry and junior level positions, look for candidates that are
>> good at
>> technology and learning, then give them room to grow into the specific
>> position. You need that anyway because your environment *is*
>> different.
>>
>> For senior positions, find those who know the field, then see if you
>> think
>> they can become the expert you need. The most likely reason we're
>> looking
>> is to do something new :).
>>
>> Also, please cross-train so when someone does leave the rest of the
>> team
>> isn't left with huge gaps in knowledge and experience!
>>
>> ciao,
>>
>> der.hans
>>
>>> Nathan
>>>
>>> On 2015-07-22 10:45, Keith Smith wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I posted for an entry level LAMP developer a week or so ago figuring
>>>> I
>>>> would find a number of people wanting to break into LAMP
>>>> development.
>>>> What I received was a lackluster response. I was offering $22/hr
>>>> 1099
>>>> with the potential to bill 40 hours a week. I figured by the time
>>>> that person pays for health insurance figured at $250/mo, pays he
>>>> self
>>>> employment tax, and takes some vacation time and holiday time off,
>>>> this compensation would be about $18 an hour W2 or $36,000 a year.
>>>> Here is the contract description:
>>>> I am looking for an entry level LAMP developer. Would like someone
>>>> with entry level PHP skills and entry level Linux skills. Stuff
>>>> like
>>>> the ability to add a user, add a sudo user, and configure vhosts on
>>>> apache. I will give directions with examples and they will be
>>>> working
>>>> on a development VPS so if they blow it we just spin up another. As
>>>> for PHP skills if this person knows how to write a MySql connection
>>>> string and is able to insert, update, delete and list.... this
>>>> person
>>>> could be what I am looking for. This is a maintenance job. This
>>>> person would need to know some HTML and CSS. jQuery would be a
>>>> plus.
>>>> This contract could last as long as 2 or 3 years. At that point we
>>>> would need to either up the compensation or understand when this
>>>> person takes off for other opportunities.
>>>> Is the compensation fair? Any ideas why I received such a lukewarm
>>>> response?
>>>> Your feedback is much appreciated.
>>>> Keith
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>>
>> --
>> # http://www.LuftHans.com/ http://www.PhxLinux.org/
>> # Don't step in front of speeding cars, don't eat explosives
>> # and don't use m$ LookOut :). -
>> der.hans---------------------------------------------------
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>
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Keith Smith
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