David, You always have great insight into the tech community. Keith On 2015-07-23 06:46, David Schwartz wrote: > The current process of matching resumes with job reqs passed from > managers to HR to recruiters / web sites to developers and back is > totally broken. > > We have hiring managers on one end who have been out of the loop for a > while and don’t seem to understand a lot of the tech used by the > people they manage. > > They write a job req and give it to HR. > > The HR people are handling job reqs for the entire company and tend to > not be very well-versed in tech either. They “polish up” the ads a bit > then post them online. > > Recruiters get hold of them and tweak them a bit. > > Then actual devs read them and cannot figure out why a job looking for > a “programmer” requires 3+ years working with the entire Adobe > Creative Suite including Photoshop and Fireworks, and why they say > they’re building a CMS but there’s no requirement for any database > experience. > > So someone perfectly suited for the job responds and gets rejected > because they don’t have the requisite “design” expertise. > > Last week I saw a job req for a junior web developer that requires, > “extensive experience with Adobe Creative Suite, php, perl, python, > MySQL (including stored procs), database design and administration, > Apache, TomCat, and HTML5/CSS3." > > There was a position on Dice looking for “a minimum of 5 years of > demonstrable experience writing apps in Swift”. > > I got an email from a recruiter last week (a young woman who probably > recently left a phone sales job with AmEx or Vanguard) who said, “I’ve > got a requirement for someone with extensive C++ programming > experience, including OOA and OOD. I don’t see a lot of people with > OOA and OOD experience listed in their resume, so you probably have a > really great shot at this position!” [never heard back] > > Job req stated: “Java experience helpful”. Me: “What version of Java > are they using?” Recruiter: “They just said Java. Does it matter what > version?” > > Recruiter: “I see you have some php experience in your background. We > have a web developer position that I think you’d be a great fit for.” > Me: “Do they require any graphic arts or visual design experience?” > Recruiter: “No, they don’t mention that.” Job req: “Requires: 5+ years > Adobe Creative Suite, including Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Fireworks, > etc.” > > Job req: “We’re looking for a seasoned senior devleoper with 10+ years > of C++ expertise.” Recruiter: “They’re looking for someone with recent > C++ experience; you haven’t worked with it in several years.” Me: > “What version of C++ are they using?” Recruiter: “It doesn’t say…” > Next day: “I checked with the manager and he said they’re using > C++99.” Me: “I worked with that version for quite a while.” Recruiter: > “I’m sorry, they really want someone with recent experience.” > > HR: “We’re looking for someone with experience in Java, specifically > lambdas and closures.” Me: “So you’re using Java 8?” HR: “No, this is > for a Java 6 role. But you have to have experience with lambdas and > closures. I don’t see that on your resume.” [Lambdas and closures are > mostly new to Java 8, and not present in Java 6.] > > My question: How in the hell does anybody get hired ANYWHERE without > flat out LYING about stuff on their resume? > > Everybody is hiring for experience with the latest tooks and > buzzwords. Nobody cares that you’ve got 10+ years of OOA/OOD/OOP > expertise if you cannot write code in the latest language du jour with > your eyes closed. They prefer college kids with no depth of experience > but one semester of some language over senior people with tons of > experience and nothing as current as the college kid has. And from > what I can tell, I could spend the next two years working with > everything under the sun on my own, and nobody will give a rip because > I have no “on the job experience” with any of it. > > It’s really messed up. When I go to job fairs there are mostly > foreigners and older folks. And recruiters basically admitting that > nobody is hiring into junior roles to learn new stuff except college > grads. Everybody says they want to hire someone who can “hit the > ground running”, which makes no sense to me because I’ve never had a > job where I didn’t have to spend several weeks (if not months) > learning their software apps first (mostly by reading the code b/c > they don’t like their devs wasting time writing documentation). > > -David > > > >> On Jul 22, 2015, at 10:40 PM, der.hans wrote: >> >> Am 22. Jul, 2015 schwätzte Nathan England so: >> >> moin moin, >> >>> The company I currently work for has 3 developer position openings >>> and in 4 months we've had only two candidates apply. That seems to me >>> a real need for developers. Either that or the job description is too >>> complicated for them to get past. >> >> ( None of this is pointing at any specific person or company, it just >> seems like the best place in the thread to mention it. ) >> >> There's an open secret about tech unemployment, it's been really low >> for >> years, even when general unemployment was really high. >> >> Due to this apparently being a secret, we get job descriptions that >> list >> every technology someone can cut and paste from Internet search >> results. >> >> But, since tech unemployment is actually low, it's hard to find >> candidates. >> >> In tech we're also usually looking for specialists. Do welding >> companies >> ask for someone expert in one particular welder? Are there dozens of >> brands of welders to choose from such that skills ( from the viewpoint >> of >> HR ) don't transfer to another brand of welder? Sorry, you only know >> java >> welders... >> >> So, we have a lack of candidates because people have jobs and don't >> need to look around and also because job descriptions are searching >> for >> unrealistic lists of skills while simultaneously focusing on narrow >> fields. >> >> Then, when candidates do appear, many get overlooked due to the narrow >> field view or lack of buzzwork bingo on their resumes. The habitually >> unemployed or new to the field seem are really up against heavy odds, >> even >> in the low unemployment state we've been in for years. >> >> Even an expert will have a learning curve to learn how your >> environment >> does it. The example I like to give is that if you hire Larry Wall to >> join >> your Perl team ( or Guido von Rossum for Python or Rasmus Lerdorf for >> PHP... ), he will need time to learn how your team works. Granted, if >> he >> then makes suggestions your team should probably listen intently :). >> >> For entry and junior level positions, look for candidates that are >> good at >> technology and learning, then give them room to grow into the specific >> position. You need that anyway because your environment *is* >> different. >> >> For senior positions, find those who know the field, then see if you >> think >> they can become the expert you need. The most likely reason we're >> looking >> is to do something new :). >> >> Also, please cross-train so when someone does leave the rest of the >> team >> isn't left with huge gaps in knowledge and experience! >> >> ciao, >> >> der.hans >> >>> Nathan >>> >>> On 2015-07-22 10:45, Keith Smith wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> I posted for an entry level LAMP developer a week or so ago figuring >>>> I >>>> would find a number of people wanting to break into LAMP >>>> development. >>>> What I received was a lackluster response. I was offering $22/hr >>>> 1099 >>>> with the potential to bill 40 hours a week. I figured by the time >>>> that person pays for health insurance figured at $250/mo, pays he >>>> self >>>> employment tax, and takes some vacation time and holiday time off, >>>> this compensation would be about $18 an hour W2 or $36,000 a year. >>>> Here is the contract description: >>>> I am looking for an entry level LAMP developer. Would like someone >>>> with entry level PHP skills and entry level Linux skills. Stuff >>>> like >>>> the ability to add a user, add a sudo user, and configure vhosts on >>>> apache. I will give directions with examples and they will be >>>> working >>>> on a development VPS so if they blow it we just spin up another. As >>>> for PHP skills if this person knows how to write a MySql connection >>>> string and is able to insert, update, delete and list.... this >>>> person >>>> could be what I am looking for. This is a maintenance job. This >>>> person would need to know some HTML and CSS. jQuery would be a >>>> plus. >>>> This contract could last as long as 2 or 3 years. At that point we >>>> would need to either up the compensation or understand when this >>>> person takes off for other opportunities. >>>> Is the compensation fair? Any ideas why I received such a lukewarm >>>> response? >>>> Your feedback is much appreciated. >>>> Keith >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >> >> -- >> # http://www.LuftHans.com/ http://www.PhxLinux.org/ >> # Don't step in front of speeding cars, don't eat explosives >> # and don't use m$ LookOut :). - >> der.hans--------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- Keith Smith --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss