Yours and der.hans' post compliment each other. Add in what Nathan said
about his organization having several openings makes me wonder if being
independent has more value than we might think. And if corporate
America is willing to contract in place of hire.
I think everyone should read
http://www.amazon.com/Purple-Cow-New-Edition-Remarkable-Includes/dp/1591843170
, find their niche and go for it.
I wonder if part of the cause is high turn over. I understand the
average American stays at a job 2 to 3 years. If this is the case in
the tech world, I can see why no one is willing to train or coach
someone.
Sure makes sense to me to hire someone with C++ experience for a Java
position -- if they are going to stay for 5 or 6 years.
Recruiting, hiring, and training is a very painful process and cost lots
in time and money.
So to summarize.... There is a shortage, possibly created by a broken
hiring system, and no one can get hired.... Ok, I feel better now.
On 2015-07-23 06:46, David Schwartz wrote:
> The current process of matching resumes with job reqs passed from
> managers to HR to recruiters / web sites to developers and back is
> totally broken.
>
> We have hiring managers on one end who have been out of the loop for a
> while and don’t seem to understand a lot of the tech used by the
> people they manage.
>
> They write a job req and give it to HR.
>
> The HR people are handling job reqs for the entire company and tend to
> not be very well-versed in tech either. They “polish up” the ads a bit
> then post them online.
>
> Recruiters get hold of them and tweak them a bit.
>
> Then actual devs read them and cannot figure out why a job looking for
> a “programmer” requires 3+ years working with the entire Adobe
> Creative Suite including Photoshop and Fireworks, and why they say
> they’re building a CMS but there’s no requirement for any database
> experience.
>
> So someone perfectly suited for the job responds and gets rejected
> because they don’t have the requisite “design” expertise.
>
> Last week I saw a job req for a junior web developer that requires,
> “extensive experience with Adobe Creative Suite, php, perl, python,
> MySQL (including stored procs), database design and administration,
> Apache, TomCat, and HTML5/CSS3."
>
> There was a position on Dice looking for “a minimum of 5 years of
> demonstrable experience writing apps in Swift”.
>
> I got an email from a recruiter last week (a young woman who probably
> recently left a phone sales job with AmEx or Vanguard) who said, “I’ve
> got a requirement for someone with extensive C++ programming
> experience, including OOA and OOD. I don’t see a lot of people with
> OOA and OOD experience listed in their resume, so you probably have a
> really great shot at this position!” [never heard back]
>
> Job req stated: “Java experience helpful”. Me: “What version of Java
> are they using?” Recruiter: “They just said Java. Does it matter what
> version?”
>
> Recruiter: “I see you have some php experience in your background. We
> have a web developer position that I think you’d be a great fit for.”
> Me: “Do they require any graphic arts or visual design experience?”
> Recruiter: “No, they don’t mention that.” Job req: “Requires: 5+ years
> Adobe Creative Suite, including Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Fireworks,
> etc.”
>
> Job req: “We’re looking for a seasoned senior devleoper with 10+ years
> of C++ expertise.” Recruiter: “They’re looking for someone with recent
> C++ experience; you haven’t worked with it in several years.” Me:
> “What version of C++ are they using?” Recruiter: “It doesn’t say…”
> Next day: “I checked with the manager and he said they’re using
> C++99.” Me: “I worked with that version for quite a while.” Recruiter:
> “I’m sorry, they really want someone with recent experience.”
>
> HR: “We’re looking for someone with experience in Java, specifically
> lambdas and closures.” Me: “So you’re using Java 8?” HR: “No, this is
> for a Java 6 role. But you have to have experience with lambdas and
> closures. I don’t see that on your resume.” [Lambdas and closures are
> mostly new to Java 8, and not present in Java 6.]
>
> My question: How in the hell does anybody get hired ANYWHERE without
> flat out LYING about stuff on their resume?
>
> Everybody is hiring for experience with the latest tooks and
> buzzwords. Nobody cares that you’ve got 10+ years of OOA/OOD/OOP
> expertise if you cannot write code in the latest language du jour with
> your eyes closed. They prefer college kids with no depth of experience
> but one semester of some language over senior people with tons of
> experience and nothing as current as the college kid has. And from
> what I can tell, I could spend the next two years working with
> everything under the sun on my own, and nobody will give a rip because
> I have no “on the job experience” with any of it.
>
> It’s really messed up. When I go to job fairs there are mostly
> foreigners and older folks. And recruiters basically admitting that
> nobody is hiring into junior roles to learn new stuff except college
> grads. Everybody says they want to hire someone who can “hit the
> ground running”, which makes no sense to me because I’ve never had a
> job where I didn’t have to spend several weeks (if not months)
> learning their software apps first (mostly by reading the code b/c
> they don’t like their devs wasting time writing documentation).
>
> -David
>
>
>
>> On Jul 22, 2015, at 10:40 PM, der.hans <PLUGd@LuftHans.com> wrote:
>>
>> Am 22. Jul, 2015 schwätzte Nathan England so:
>>
>> moin moin,
>>
>>> The company I currently work for has 3 developer position openings
>>> and in 4 months we've had only two candidates apply. That seems to me
>>> a real need for developers. Either that or the job description is too
>>> complicated for them to get past.
>>
>> ( None of this is pointing at any specific person or company, it just
>> seems like the best place in the thread to mention it. )
>>
>> There's an open secret about tech unemployment, it's been really low
>> for
>> years, even when general unemployment was really high.
>>
>> Due to this apparently being a secret, we get job descriptions that
>> list
>> every technology someone can cut and paste from Internet search
>> results.
>>
>> But, since tech unemployment is actually low, it's hard to find
>> candidates.
>>
>> In tech we're also usually looking for specialists. Do welding
>> companies
>> ask for someone expert in one particular welder? Are there dozens of
>> brands of welders to choose from such that skills ( from the viewpoint
>> of
>> HR ) don't transfer to another brand of welder? Sorry, you only know
>> java
>> welders...
>>
>> So, we have a lack of candidates because people have jobs and don't
>> need to look around and also because job descriptions are searching
>> for
>> unrealistic lists of skills while simultaneously focusing on narrow
>> fields.
>>
>> Then, when candidates do appear, many get overlooked due to the narrow
>> field view or lack of buzzwork bingo on their resumes. The habitually
>> unemployed or new to the field seem are really up against heavy odds,
>> even
>> in the low unemployment state we've been in for years.
>>
>> Even an expert will have a learning curve to learn how your
>> environment
>> does it. The example I like to give is that if you hire Larry Wall to
>> join
>> your Perl team ( or Guido von Rossum for Python or Rasmus Lerdorf for
>> PHP... ), he will need time to learn how your team works. Granted, if
>> he
>> then makes suggestions your team should probably listen intently :).
>>
>> For entry and junior level positions, look for candidates that are
>> good at
>> technology and learning, then give them room to grow into the specific
>> position. You need that anyway because your environment *is*
>> different.
>>
>> For senior positions, find those who know the field, then see if you
>> think
>> they can become the expert you need. The most likely reason we're
>> looking
>> is to do something new :).
>>
>> Also, please cross-train so when someone does leave the rest of the
>> team
>> isn't left with huge gaps in knowledge and experience!
>>
>> ciao,
>>
>> der.hans
>>
>>> Nathan
>>>
>>> On 2015-07-22 10:45, Keith Smith wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I posted for an entry level LAMP developer a week or so ago figuring
>>>> I
>>>> would find a number of people wanting to break into LAMP
>>>> development.
>>>> What I received was a lackluster response. I was offering $22/hr
>>>> 1099
>>>> with the potential to bill 40 hours a week. I figured by the time
>>>> that person pays for health insurance figured at $250/mo, pays he
>>>> self
>>>> employment tax, and takes some vacation time and holiday time off,
>>>> this compensation would be about $18 an hour W2 or $36,000 a year.
>>>> Here is the contract description:
>>>> I am looking for an entry level LAMP developer. Would like someone
>>>> with entry level PHP skills and entry level Linux skills. Stuff
>>>> like
>>>> the ability to add a user, add a sudo user, and configure vhosts on
>>>> apache. I will give directions with examples and they will be
>>>> working
>>>> on a development VPS so if they blow it we just spin up another. As
>>>> for PHP skills if this person knows how to write a MySql connection
>>>> string and is able to insert, update, delete and list.... this
>>>> person
>>>> could be what I am looking for. This is a maintenance job. This
>>>> person would need to know some HTML and CSS. jQuery would be a
>>>> plus.
>>>> This contract could last as long as 2 or 3 years. At that point we
>>>> would need to either up the compensation or understand when this
>>>> person takes off for other opportunities.
>>>> Is the compensation fair? Any ideas why I received such a lukewarm
>>>> response?
>>>> Your feedback is much appreciated.
>>>> Keith
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>>
>> --
>> # http://www.LuftHans.com/ http://www.PhxLinux.org/
>> # Don't step in front of speeding cars, don't eat explosives
>> # and don't use m$ LookOut :). -
>> der.hans---------------------------------------------------
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>
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