FYI:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Lisa Kachold <
foobar@it-clowns.com>
Date: Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 9:47 PM
Subject: Fwd: plug calendar
Thanks Todd for your mail describing your direct role in the decision to
drop the 8 year old Hackfests from the PLUG calendar (excerpted below). I
really wish you or Hans or another PLUG member would have contacted me
either to state this decision or brainstorm a solution.
I understand that you have fostered bad feelings after DeVry University's
management requested that David Demland (and I) verify the student use of
the donated rack at OneNeck, which actually was not used at all for
anything but the AZLoco Big Blue Button server that you inherited after
their (student managed) DLUG was left without leadership (due to
graduation) and disbanded. Since AZLoco had no school relationship or
student interaction, it was suggested that we give you a chance to either
relocate your servers or begin working closely with the Hackfests or
another student or University involved open source event, as their rules
require. You chose instead, to quickly remove your servers and limit all
communication with me, which previously was regular, cooperative and
productive.
Unfortunately the PLUG Discuss List has failed to recognize the great
contribution the Hackfest provides to the community, to our interns and
DeVry/ITT students, and the value the open source security contributors and
professional linux community members have added through the last 8 years
interacting and supporting the Hackfest.
People attempting to attend the Hackfests complained because they couldn't
get into the DeVry University campus without instructions which we were
repeatedly unsuccessful getting posted on the PLUG Schedule. DeVry is a
closed secure campus, and the office volunteers often don't know what event
is happening when. Posting signs is also limited by school facility
security rules, and without detailed instructions on the PLUG schedule our
attendance suffered. We have NEVER missed a venue or a scheduled event
(especially not in the last 5 years [since you became active in the Plug
Schedule after you were asked to relinquish sole use of the OneNeck rack
(or become involved directly with DeVry students). Again we have failed
repeatedly over the years with our requests to get the Hackfest listing
specifics on the PLUG schedule. Our posts to the PLUG announce mailing
lists, and security have always gone out (or been sent) days before the
event and included instructions to either call 2 phone numbers for (David
Demland and/or I) or trade an ID at the office for an access badge to come
to room #231. I was alerted that no announcements were being sent, but
assumed that the PLUG was operated in a professional way, and if there was
an issue, I would be contacted. No announcements came to a second address
I use for test email which is also subscribed to all the email lists, so
when I finally found time between professional endeavors (IBM/Dell/local
current International security firm Sr. Systems Administration role) I
began to investigate.
We always have at least 10 community people (in addition to students) but
usually total attendance tops around 25 filling the lab where we use DeVry
desktop stations to demonstrate Kali Linux. This is a healthy venue that
will be continuing with one of the other local Users Groups and David
Demland, Tim Garcia (ITT), and the many other professionals contributing
presentations and suggestions.
I believe you are misreading the user complaints about the Hackfest which
were actually a complaint of the lack of instructions posted on the
schedule, for which you had the ability to effect. This is a terrible
failure of a LUG process when actually all that would have been required to
make it more successful would have been the addition of a good description
of access procedures to DeVry University including my very public phone
number on the PLUG schedule.
I have directed all of our attendees not to target either AZLoco or the
PhxLinux.org sites because of this controversy and long running conflict,
despite the fact that most CMS are trivially exploitable with the practical
tools and procedures we demonstrate at Hackfests in lab environments.
--Best
Original Email:
from: Todd Cole <
toddc@azloco.com>
to: Lisa Kachhold <
lisakachold@obnosis.com>
date: Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 6:47 PM
subject: plug calendar
Lisa
I no longer mail to plug list so I apologize on the delay and private email.
Some of the things you have posted are in fact due to me. Several years
ago there were many errors in the plug calendar and the loco was a bit more
accurate. Hans now has kids and a family and Brian has a kid and full time
job and the calendar was sadly not kept up. I offered loco dates by feed at
first and then last year we went to a full feed from loco calendar. This
has been difficult to word events and top billing and whose name should be
first. There have been several volunteers that have started to maintain the
plug calendar but both have dropped it after minutes of updating events. As
of right now no one is maintaining the plug calendar and several broken
feeds and events some new, some wrong.
I have dropped the Hackfest from azloco calendar due to many complaints
several years ago of people showing up at events and finding no one there
and no note or notice of a cancelled event. Since you have moved to Devry I
was still getting a few calls that they could not locate or contact you at
an event and or people were at a event felt totally lost. I can understand
that your projects are not for a total noob or a basic user so after
discussions with plug and the loco it was decided not to promote Hackfest
at this time. If and when I get positive comments I will be happy to
reconsider for the loco end and I cannot speak for the plug side
--
Todd Cole
Ubuntu Arizona Team
4605 S PRIEST DR LOT 3
TEMPE AZ 85282-6507
toddc@azloco.com
602-677-9402
On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Lyle Tuttle <
l.tuttle@cox.net> wrote:
> Gee Lisa, I'm not sure I understand all of this, but at least it written
> in English!!
>
> At 08:22 AM 11/30/2014, Lisa Kachold wrote:
>
> Hans/(All),
>
> PLUG (aka Hans [since actually no leadership was ever allowed] is going to
> have to state the rules under which you are "dismissing" via schedule
> removal a healthy regular popular venue.Â
>
> PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") Â is going to have to reference when those rules
> were published and when they were delivered to me.Â
>
> EVERYONE has historically had their own website, because PLUG does not
> allow:
>
> 1) Specific wording in announcements.
> 2) Submitting additional announcements and extensive innovative content.
> 3) Presentation postings.
>
> Examples of other historic users (in good standing) with their own
> websites to support their presentations and community endeavors include:
>
> Ryan Rix
> Alan Dayley
> Joseph Sinclair
> Brian Cluff
> Alexander Henry
>
> The PLUG (lack of structure and rules/guidelines) consistent with other
> cities of comparable sizes (specific examples are Seattle, Los Angeles and
> Portland) has kept the group from becoming all that a LUG can be. Â
>
> Older retired penguins have devoted thousands of hours and dollars each
> year purchasing their own equipment for community venues like Installfest
> without anyone in PLUG "leadership" even getting a 501(c)3 rider under
> another PLUG to allow income tax relief.
>
> Here's a long list of past discussions that echo these limitations and
> issues:
>
> <http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20100205.085425.dbace92f.en.html>
> http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20100205.085425.dbace92f.en.html
>
> http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20130508.020509.d70d1744.en.html
>
> http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20090806.163922.37c4d455.en.html
>
> http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20101108.063046.7219d889.en.html
>
> The ramifications of PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") limiting announcements and
> venues (like the HackFest) that promote continuing educational schools
> (other than Mesa Community College [where he has been adjunct teacher]) are
> obvious.
>
> The ramifications of PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") "dropping" a 7 year successful
> event like the HackFest is HUGE.
>
> I have been long contacted by members active for many years who want
> support to backup recommendations to disband the PLUG (or remove
> "Presidential dictatorship") Â with a long laundry list of reasons from
> sexual harassment (Example: Hans raising his wedding ring clad finger to
> women as they wait to speak with him about PLUG matters during public
> community events [which I have experienced twice myself]) Â to outright
> misuse of funding ( [tee shirts and donations from local businesses] and
> PLUG interns/students raising money for sister project ABLEConf) as well as
> inappropriate steering to classes at Mesa Community College during
> "OpenSource" community venues.
>
> I have stayed out of escalation of those issues to other authorities, but
> "Silence is DEATH" and a Linux Users Group where membership live in threat
> of social ostracism and promote via "inner circle relationships" (or make
> decisions like drop a healthy venue without written rules or warning) is
> nothing more than a "GANG" and is destined to die.
>
> 1) Please show me the rules under which removal of the HackFests from the
> calendar was made? If there was a scheduling issue, why was I not called
> or allowed to reschedule? Our security community and active interns have
> been historically very changeable and this could be easily arranged at
> DeVry University who also provide a rack at OneNeck.
> Â Â
> 2) Please show me the rules that state posting a discussion to more than
> one mailing list with the same content is disallowed? Â It is not on any
> of the mailing list phxlinux.org pages? Â
>
> 3) And while we are talking about it, please show me the rules (in any
> PLUG) that state that we can't have TWO PLUG EVENTS on the same day? Is
> that because the website php CMS software won't allow it? [/LAUGH]
>
> I have a HackFest iPhone and Android app ready (which can be released in
> the next week) to submit to Google Play and Apple Store. I will happily
> leave the phxlinux.org and PLUG name out of that code.
>
> Thanks for "allowing me" to continue to announce the HackFests on the
> mailing lists. Â
>
> Happy ThanksGiving
>
> On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 1:08 AM, der.hans <PLUGd@lufthans.com> wrote:
>
> Am 29. Nov, 2014 schwätzte Lisa Kachold so:
>
> moin moin Lisa,
>
> I was curious as to why you have removed the Hackfests (2nd Saturday of
> every month) afrom the PLUG Calendar?
>
>
> You've been acting as a seperate group for years. You have your own web
> site and mailing list for your group.
>
> Â
>
> You may continue announcing your events on the list, but please stop
> cross-posting to multiple lists.
>
> ciao,
>
> der.hans
>
>
> Hackfests have been going strong since 2008 and have students from ITT
> and
> strong support from DeVry where instructors provide extra credit to their
> security students for attendance.
>
> DeVry University provides a rack for PLUG use (providing it is actually
> used in context with student related open source activities) at OneNeck
> which is populated with a VMWare ESXi 5.5 server, OpenVPN server, Security
> Onion, Metasploitable and other images for demonstration purposes, all of
> which has been built entirely with community contributed assets and intern
> effort. We contribute Kali CD's for lab demonstration use, promotional
> tee
> shirts and shared DefCon videos each year.
>
> We have a large following of local security professionals, with visits from
> University of Phoenix, Palo Verde Nuclear, Department of the Army and
> GoDaddy staff.
>
> I have received no notice related to any new requirements or change?
>
> I have posted monthly announcements to the PLUG Announce list since 2008
> and have never been notified of any other PLUG requirements?
>
> Please add this great linux security lab venue back to the PLUG Schedule.
>
> 2nd Saturday of every month 11:00 - 2:00 PM.
> DeVry University
>
> Thanks
>
>
> --
> #Â http://www.LuftHans.com/Â Â Â Â http://www.PhxLinux.org/
> <http://www.phxlinux.org/>
> #Â A Polish friend of mine got an offer for a free account from AOL. The
> #Â login ID was "HELLO" and the passwd "CYMBAL". She says "cymbal" is like
> #Â a Polish word for "sucker". 'Hello sucker', a greeting from AOHell :).
>
>
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