...sorry... meant it to go to the list, thanks!!
To clarify you are seeing a trend towards browser based mobile apps?
On 2014-08-04 09:48, Paul Mooring wrote:
> I wanted to send this to the list, because I think you make some
> excellent points here. Also just for the record, I'm not necessarily
> saying I think do web apps for smart phones is better. I'm merely
> providing POV from someone working in the tech start-up space that
> that's what the industry is currently leaning towards. I actually
> prefer native apps myself.
>
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 7:51 AM, <techlists@phpcoderusa.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2014-08-03 19:14, Paul Mooring wrote:
>>
>>> This is a probably a longer and more involved conversation than
>>> you
>>> think. There's a few primary factors in supply and demand for
>>> app
>>> developers:
>>>
>>> 1. Native vs HTML
>>>
>>> There's a huge difference in the available supply of
>>> developers and
>>> companies currently equipped to make an html5 site that plays
>>> nice
>>> with both ios and android. I think we're likely to see a
>>> proliferation of tools like phonegap (http://phonegap.com/ [1]
>>> [6]) and a
>>>
>>> slow down of native apps as html apps eat that market share.
>>> When
>>> you consider currently ios requires objective-C and android Java,
>>> you
>>> have 2 languages with different tool chains and a more involved
>>> development and release process competing against a very well
>>> understood and super fast html/javascript ecosystem. In my
>>> opinion
>>> html/js will eat the mobile dev community as quickly and
>>> dominantly as
>>> it did for native Windows/OSX applications.
>>
>> This is akin to the argument for browser based applications 10 - 15
>> years ago. You build an app that runs in a browser and there is no
>> deployment - just point your browser to the website.
>>
>> Building browser based apps that rival desktop apps is not easy.
>> It is easier now that we have jQuery et al, however still not as
>> easy as building desktop apps with Visual Basic (VB). It could
>> take 10 - 20 times longer to build a really trick jQuery web app
>> that rivals a VB app. Unless of course you build widgets that can be
>> reused, then you spend a bunch of time the first go around and reuse
>> those widgets. Still a lot of time building those widgets.
>>
>> I have not built any Android apps, however I suspect it might be
>> faster to build them than HTML/(MySql/MariaDB)/CSS/JavaScript
>> (jQuery). The down side is the different platforms. Which one do
>> you go with and what is the market implications of doing so.
>>
>> Of course web apps require a server or at lease some cheap virtual
>> hosting depending on the needs of the app.
>>
>>> 2. Expanding platforms
>>>
>>> Currently ios and android own the market, but with microsoft,
>>> mozilla, ubuntu, etc. all getting into the mobile os game it's
>>> conceivable that the overall market could keep growing without
>>> making
>>> android/java skills a "must have".
>>
>> This is down right ugly.
>>
>>> 3. Better native app tooling
>>>
>>> Writing full featured web applications 10 years ago was really
>>> hard. Rails, Django, Laravel, etc. along with REST APIs and
>>> json
>>> revolutionized how we build web services making it a whole lot
>>> easier. Then much more recently jquery followed by a million
>>> javascript frameworks did the same for front ends. If native
>>> android
>>> development keeps growing similar tooling is sure to be built to
>>> drastically reduce the entrance barrier.
>>
>> It's still very time consuming and requires skills that come with a
>> learning curve.
>>
>> We are still stuck in the 80's with C versus the 90's with Visual
>> Basic. You build your own widgets and development time is through
>> the roof.
>>
>> Building mobile web apps takes a considerable amount of skill and
>> arguably two distinct or possibly three distinct skill sets - 1)
>> Programmers, 2) Designers, and 3) JavaScript / jQuery developers.
>> I assume building an Android app requires one skill set - Android
>> programming skills - a much smaller set of skills.
>>
>>> Overall I think it will become easier/cheaper/faster to build
>>> mobile
>>> apps, but I sort of doubt that will manifest itself in the form
>>> of
>>> most developers learning and rallying around Java and the Android
>>> API.
>>
>> Thank you for your thoughts. In a nutshell I think what you are
>> saying is there is high demand presently, the market will fragment,
>> the demand will level out, and we should consider web apps first.
>>
>> The thing we have not talk about is marketing. I think this is
>> what is motivating Joe. If one builds browser base application and
>> you want to market it how do you do so? SEO is the main way. As
>> Google continues to refine their algorithm trying to get a website
>> to rank is getting more difficult. The alternative is to spend
>> lots of money on advertising. Both approaches require deep
>> pockets.
>>
>> If Joe releases his Android app it might get some traction. And
>> it might be easier to market in the traditional way. The down side
>> is only part of the market can run the app.
>>
>> My motivation for asking the question was purely wanting to know if
>> the high demand for Android developers will last. No one can know
>> for sure. While you say the market will splinter, I think Android
>> will be a strong contender. I do not see M$ as a real market player.
>> They have a lot of money and can put a dent in the market, however
>> they seem to miss the boat in so many ways. Linux is such a better
>> operating system and demands so much less resources to run
>> efficiently. Now Apple is a big dog!! And they seem to do a lot
>> of things right. Isn't OSX based on FreeBSD? Doesn't that make
>> them cousins with Linux/Android? Could we see the merging of tools
>> in this area?
>>
>> Thank you for your thoughts!!
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 4:35 PM, <techlists@phpcoderusa.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> One would think that Andriod programming is going to be with us for
>> year... decade at least. However that begs the question, what do
>> you (or anyone else) think the long term demand will be?
>> Increasing or decreasing?
>>
>> Is there any barriers to entry like a nasty learning curve?
>> Specialized hardware? ETC...
>>
>> I think I looked at the SDK about a year ago and as I recall it
>> looked to be Java based and then I think I was told of a C++ SDK.
>> IIRC - I think it was something that looked to take a little
>> effort to learn but not too bad.
>>
>> I think i recall something about using JavaScript.....?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Keith
>>
>> On 2014-08-03 16:09, Paul Mooring wrote:
>>
>> Not to discourage you from trying to make this happen, but a bit of
>> perspective might help. Currently android/java developers are in
>> great demand, where I live the average salary is around $110,000/yr
>> or
>> roughly $2100/week. Having done a bit of contract/outsourcing
>> work
>> myself, I can tell you the experienced contractors/developers
>> intended
>> to lose as much as a weeks time on any project just trying to
>> understand what needs to happen and working with the stake holders
>> to
>> make changes along the lines of "one more simple thing". The take
>> away is there's going to be a minimum price/complexity to justify
>> taking on a project for a skilled/competent developer and if your
>> app
>> doesn't meet that benchmark you're going to have hard time
>> finding a
>> U.S. based competent developer interested in it.
>>
>> This doesn't mean it's a bad idea or you shouldn't do it, just keep
>> in
>> mind that while you may be really passionate about your idea to
>> developers it's one of many offers to work on a contract for an
>> individual offering below market rates. That's a great fit
>> for
>> contractors in India, students or a dev trying to expand her skill
>> set
>> (web dev still learning mobile apps, etc.) but not so appealing to
>> established professionals.
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 10:04 AM, <joe@actionline.com> wrote:
>>
>> Wanted: Android App Developer $??? Reward ...
>>
>> How can I find a skilled/competent/reasonably priced Android App
>> Developer ... preferrably Arizona local or at least in the U.S.?
>>
>> I've tried elance.com [2] [1] [1] and odesk.com [3] [2] [2] and
>> several
>>
>> similar
>>
>> sites, without
>> success. Mostly get proposals from India and Pakistan, etc.
>>
>> I'm willing to pay up to $1,000 (perhaps more) to get the results
>> we need
>> for an app to read, scroll, flip pages, and search within a book.
>> Should
>> be relatively simple and straight-forward. Need to be able to add
>> to the
>> content and submit updates to the Google playstore myself.
>>
>> See my first-attempt (which does not yet work as well as we need it
>> to)
>> here:
>>
>>
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.CompareBibleVersionsPackage
>> [4]
>>
>> [3]
>> [3]
>>
>> Please respond either here or off-line to joe(at)actionline.com [5]
>> [4]
>> [4]
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [6] [5] [5]
>>
>> --
>>
>> Paul Mooring
>> Operations Engineer
>> Chef
>>
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1] http://elance.com [2] [1]
>> [2] http://odesk.com [3] [2]
>> [3]
>>
>>
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.CompareBibleVersionsPackage
>> [4]
>> [3]
>> [4] http://actionline.com [5] [4]
>> [5] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [6] [5]
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [6] [5]
>>
>> --
>>
>> Paul Mooring
>> Operations Engineer
>> Chef
>>
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1] http://elance.com [2]
>> [2] http://odesk.com [3]
>> [3]
>>
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.CompareBibleVersionsPackage
>> [4]
>> [4] http://actionline.com [5]
>> [5] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [6]
>> [6] http://phonegap.com/ [1]
>
> --
>
> Paul Mooring
> Operations Engineer
> Chef
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://phonegap.com/
> [2] http://elance.com
> [3] http://odesk.com
> [4]
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.CompareBibleVersionsPackage
> [5] http://actionline.com
> [6] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
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