...sorry... meant it to go to the list, thanks!! To clarify you are seeing a trend towards browser based mobile apps? On 2014-08-04 09:48, Paul Mooring wrote: > I wanted to send this to the list, because I think you make some > excellent points here.  Also just for the record, I'm not necessarily > saying I think do web apps for smart phones is better. I'm merely > providing POV from someone working in the tech start-up space that > that's what the industry is currently leaning towards.  I actually > prefer native apps myself. > > On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 7:51 AM, wrote: > >> On 2014-08-03 19:14, Paul Mooring wrote: >> >>> This is a probably a longer and more involved conversation than >>> you >>> think.  There's a few primary factors in supply and demand for >>> app >>> developers: >>> >>> 1. Native vs HTML >>> >>>   There's a huge difference in the available supply of >>> developers and >>> companies currently equipped to make an html5 site that plays >>> nice >>> with both ios and android.  I think we're likely to see a >>> proliferation of tools like phonegap (http://phonegap.com/ [1] >>> [6]) and a >>> >>> slow down of native apps as html apps eat that market share.  >>> When >>> you consider currently ios requires objective-C and android Java, >>> you >>> have 2 languages with different tool chains and a more involved >>> development and release process competing against a very well >>> understood and super fast html/javascript ecosystem.  In my >>> opinion >>> html/js will eat the mobile dev community as quickly and >>> dominantly as >>> it did for native Windows/OSX applications. >> >> This is akin to the argument for browser based applications 10 - 15 >> years ago.  You build an app that runs in a browser and there is no >> deployment - just point your browser to the website. >> >> Building browser based apps that rival desktop apps is not easy. >>  It is easier now that we have jQuery et al, however still not as >> easy as building desktop apps with Visual Basic (VB).  It could >> take 10 - 20 times longer to build a really trick jQuery web app >> that rivals a VB app. Unless of course you build widgets that can be >> reused, then you spend a bunch of time the first go around and reuse >> those widgets.  Still a lot of time building those widgets. >> >> I have not built any Android apps, however I suspect it might be >> faster to build them than HTML/(MySql/MariaDB)/CSS/JavaScript >> (jQuery).  The down side is the different platforms.  Which one do >> you go with and what is the market implications of doing so. >> >> Of course web apps require a server or at lease some cheap virtual >> hosting depending on the needs of the app. >> >>> 2. Expanding platforms >>> >>>   Currently ios and android own the market, but with microsoft, >>> mozilla, ubuntu, etc. all getting into the mobile os game it's >>> conceivable that the overall market could keep growing without >>> making >>> android/java skills a "must have". >> >> This is down right ugly. >> >>> 3. Better native app tooling >>> >>>   Writing full featured web applications 10 years ago was really >>> hard.  Rails, Django, Laravel, etc. along with REST APIs and >>> json >>> revolutionized how we build web services making it a whole lot >>> easier.  Then much more recently jquery followed by a million >>> javascript frameworks did the same for front ends.  If native >>> android >>> development keeps growing similar tooling is sure to be built to >>> drastically reduce the entrance barrier. >> >> It's still very time consuming and requires skills that come with a >> learning curve. >> >> We are still stuck in the 80's with C versus the 90's with Visual >> Basic.  You build your own widgets and development time is through >> the roof. >> >> Building mobile web apps takes a considerable amount of skill and >> arguably two distinct or possibly three distinct skill sets - 1) >> Programmers, 2) Designers, and 3) JavaScript / jQuery developers. >>  I assume building an Android app requires one skill set - Android >> programming skills - a much smaller set of skills. >> >>> Overall I think it will become easier/cheaper/faster to build >>> mobile >>> apps, but I sort of doubt that will manifest itself in the form >>> of >>> most developers learning and rallying around Java and the Android >>> API. >> >> Thank you for your thoughts.  In a nutshell I think what you are >> saying is there is high demand presently, the market will fragment, >> the demand will level out, and we should consider web apps first. >> >> The thing we have not talk about is marketing.  I think this is >> what is motivating Joe.  If one builds browser base application and >> you want to market it how do you do so?  SEO is the main way.  As >> Google continues to refine their algorithm trying to get a website >> to rank is getting more difficult.  The alternative is to spend >> lots of money on advertising.  Both approaches require deep >> pockets. >> >> If Joe releases his Android app it might get some traction.  And >> it might be easier to market in the traditional way.  The down side >> is only part of the market can run the app. >> >> My motivation for asking the question was purely wanting to know if >> the high demand for Android developers will last.  No one can know >> for sure. While you say the market will splinter, I think Android >> will be a strong contender. I do not see M$ as a real market player. >> They have a lot of money and can put a dent in the market, however >> they seem to miss the boat in so many ways.  Linux is such a better >> operating system and demands so much less resources to run >> efficiently.  Now Apple is a big dog!!  And they seem to do a lot >> of things right. Isn't OSX based on FreeBSD?  Doesn't that make >> them cousins with Linux/Android?  Could we see the merging of tools >> in this area? >> >> Thank you for your thoughts!! >> >> On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 4:35 PM, wrote: >> >> Hi Paul, >> >> One would think that Andriod programming is going to be with us for >> year... decade at least.  However that begs the question, what do >> you (or anyone else) think the long term demand will be? >>  Increasing or decreasing? >> >> Is there any barriers to entry like a nasty learning curve? >>  Specialized hardware?  ETC... >> >> I think I looked at the SDK about a year ago and as I recall it >> looked to be Java based and then I think I was told of a C++ SDK. >>  IIRC - I think it was something that looked to take a little >> effort to learn but not too bad. >> >> I think i recall something about using JavaScript.....? >> >> Thanks! >> Keith >> >> On 2014-08-03 16:09, Paul Mooring wrote: >> >> Not to discourage you from trying to make this happen, but a bit of >> perspective might help.  Currently android/java developers are in >> great demand, where I live the average salary is around $110,000/yr >> or >> roughly $2100/week.  Having done a bit of contract/outsourcing >> work >> myself, I can tell you the experienced contractors/developers >> intended >> to lose as much as a weeks time on any project just trying to >> understand what needs to happen and working with the stake holders >> to >> make changes along the lines of "one more simple thing".  The take >> away is there's going to be a minimum price/complexity to justify >> taking on a project for a skilled/competent developer and if your >> app >> doesn't meet that benchmark you're going to have  hard time >> finding a >> U.S. based competent developer interested in it. >> >> This doesn't mean it's a bad idea or you shouldn't do it, just keep >> in >> mind that while you may be really passionate about your idea to >> developers it's one of many offers to work on a contract for an >> individual  offering below market rates.  That's a great fit >> for  >> contractors in India, students or a dev trying to expand her skill >> set >> (web dev still learning mobile apps, etc.) but not so appealing to >> established professionals. >> >> On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 10:04 AM, wrote: >> >> Wanted: Android App Developer $??? Reward ... >> >> How can I find a skilled/competent/reasonably priced Android App >> Developer ... preferrably Arizona local or at least in the U.S.? >> >> I've tried elance.com [2] [1] [1] and odesk.com [3] [2] [2] and >> several >> >> similar >> >> sites, without >> success. Mostly get proposals from India and Pakistan, etc. >> >> I'm willing to pay up to $1,000 (perhaps more) to get the results >> we need >> for an app to read, scroll, flip pages, and search within a book. >> Should >> be relatively simple and straight-forward.  Need to be able to add >> to the >> content and submit updates to the Google playstore myself. >> >> See my first-attempt (which does not yet work as well as we need it >> to) >> here: >> >> > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.CompareBibleVersionsPackage >> [4] >> >> [3] >> [3] >> >> Please respond either here or off-line to joe(at)actionline.com [5] >> [4] >> [4] >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [6] [5] [5] >> >> -- >> >> Paul Mooring >> Operations Engineer >> Chef >> >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] http://elance.com [2] [1] >> [2] http://odesk.com [3] [2] >> [3] >> >> > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.CompareBibleVersionsPackage >> [4] >> [3] >> [4] http://actionline.com [5] [4] >> [5] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [6] [5] >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [6] [5] >> >> -- >> >> Paul Mooring >> Operations Engineer >> Chef >> >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] http://elance.com [2] >> [2] http://odesk.com [3] >> [3] >> > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.CompareBibleVersionsPackage >> [4] >> [4] http://actionline.com [5] >> [5] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss [6] >> [6] http://phonegap.com/ [1] > > -- > > Paul Mooring > Operations Engineer > Chef > > Links: > ------ > [1] http://phonegap.com/ > [2] http://elance.com > [3] http://odesk.com > [4] > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.CompareBibleVersionsPackage > [5] http://actionline.com > [6] http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss