On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Joshua Zeidner <
jjzeidner@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Lisa Kachold <lisakachold@obnosis.com>
> wrote:
> > I don't hire people on the basis of either certification or education
> > and neither did a great number of the original ISP's or development
> > firms.
> >
> > I have a few certs (have gotten various certs through the years) but I
> > don't believe they show anything other than I can certify.
> >
> > And I have hired people who had Masters in CS, all manner of Certs,
> > who would NOT work, taking responsibility for nothing or who were
> > essentially, "academics" rather than engineers or administrators, and
> > could not perform if/then/therefore logical troubleshooting or real
> > time emergency "obnosis" on the front lines during regular production
> > linux work.
> >
> > If you want education, right now is the perfect time to get a degree,
>
> I beg to differ... education is unbelievably overpriced. If you do
> not qualify for grants, ie. youre a white male, the return on
> education investment right now is very very poor. People often forget
> that the boomer generation often went to university without accruing
> any debt whatsoever (that is if they had the drive to do it). Today,
> going to college often means LIFETIME debt.
>
> As for your comments on hiring process, I knew someone who used to
> say exactly the same thing. He had no degree and had reached the
> ceiling of what a non-degreed person could achieve in the corporate
> world. He claimed that his discrimination process was much more
> effective than any university. What he was really doing was
> surrounding himself with sycophants who knew how he liked his ego
> stroked (= "smart people" in his language). Needless to say, the
> proof is in the pudding... the customer is interested in what you can
> accomplish. His department was constantly hanging by a thread and
> everyone worked 80+ hours a week. The good people dropped out
> quickly, and the undesirables were left ( whom he liked to think as
> having "true grit").
>
> Colleges formalize and accreditize knowledge, and that isn't
> worthless. Its not worth anywhere near what you pay for it, however.
>
> -jmz
>
Quite true. Our educational caste system is useless, but nothing can change
the fact it exists.
Maybe whatever metamorphisis is currently occurring Internationally will
change that?
<mutter.....I doubt it!>
>
> > while the world changes around (did you see Dark City?)....get grants
> > and loans and go get a 4 year in 3 or something like UAT or Devry
> > offers.
> >
> > WE LIVE IN AN EDUCATIONAL CASTE SYSTEM! You will be paid on the basis
> > of your education and in corporate America, your lack of an education
> > (without 25 years of experience) will get you a only a nice contract
> > job or a technical support job....
> >
> > No amount of certifications will change that!
> >
> >
> > On 11/1/09, Jason Spatafore <jason_online@spatafore.net> wrote:
> >> Linux+ objectives are changing this year, so I don't think you could
> >> "cram" for the exam quite yet since the newer books will probably be
> >> heading out to the shelves soon. However, I always place stock in the
> >> exam cram and exam prep books as those seem to help tremendously. (I
> >> used exam cram + exam prep for my exam back in 2003.)
> >>
> >> Other good books that are not exam related would be anything from
> >> O'reilly.
> >>
> >> For the "ask and answer" part...I would suggest online communities and
> >> this discussion list. Go to a few install fests. Talk with the
> >> people...most importantly, don't be afraid to sound "stupid"...we all
> >> went through the "Oh crap, I forgot everything is a file" thought. :)
> >>
> >> If you feel really ambitious...pick up a book about C programming. Not C
> >> ++...C programming. The Linux kernel, and many of the other commands are
> >> programmed in C. This gives you an understanding of the Syntax. Then
> >> there is some knowledge of Perl, Python, etc. You don't need the
> >> advanced knowledge of a programmer, but you do need to get a good hold
> >> on the syntatical differences. This can all be done online for free if
> >> you find the penny pile starting to get a little reduced.
> >>
> >> The beauty of Linux...is that experience and community overrules
> >> certification and profit.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, 2009-11-01 at 14:08 -0700, Sean Parsons wrote:
> >>> Jason - Thank you for your response.
> >>>
> >>> I have spent the last 4-5 months doing the self paced learning,
> checking
> >>> out every book I can get but it still falls short of complete as it's
> one
> >>> way learning and I can learn faster 2-way, asking questions-getting
> >>> answers. I have the LPI books on library loan to see if I could pass
> the
> >>> test, but seriously I know enough to break a server/workstation better
> >>> than a newbie.. :)
> >>>
> >>> I want to learn more and need to find a place to get that 2-way
> >>> communication so I can get passed this learning curve. I want to
> replace
> >>> 75% of my windows servers in the next 12 months, but want to be more
> >>> confident in my abilities first.
> >>>
> >>> Can you recommend a source for linux+, I have centered on Ubuntu
> for now
> >>> as Mandriva and Debian offered me too many challenges, but may be fine
> >>> after I get up to speed better. So I don't think the distro is a
> >>> factor.... yet.
> >>>
> >>> I would love to be the guy to figure out how to play my MS games
> in
> >>> Linux, as it is now my only reason to keep Windows around in a virtual
> >>> desktop..... Eventually I'd like to use the disks for target practice..
> :}
> >>>
> >>> Thanks again for your time.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sean Parsons
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: plug-discuss-bounces@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> >>> [mailto:plug-discuss-bounces@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of
> Jason
> >>> Spatafore
> >>> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 1:59 PM
> >>> To: Main PLUG discussion list
> >>> Subject: Re: Linux certification
> >>>
> >>> Honestly, get Linux+ and play with Linux day in and day out. If you can
> >>> learn one command, and 3 of that command's most useful options, every
> >>> week, you will start to move forward fast. It's kind of like collecting
> >>> weapons in a video game...the more you have, the more versatile you can
> >>> be. (After 3 years, you'll know 150+ commands...and those 150 commands
> >>> is a HUGE arsenal of weaponry that can make you extremely versatile.)
> >>>
> >>> Do not think you can "certify yourself into the industry". Linux is
> >>> beyond an organized structure of system administration....it's a
> thought
> >>> process. You approach the problem with "what do I need to do?" then "is
> >>> there a command that already does it?"
> >>>
> >>> Linux has a community that creates, explores, challenges, and expands.
> >>> If you are going to be a part in that community, you must definitely
> >>> explore...a LOT.
> >>>
> >>> That's my advice to anybody who may want to get into Linux. Understand
> >>> that gaming will be your largest challenge...but you could become one
> of
> >>> the people who will change that drawback.
> >>>
> >>> All I have is Linux+...there's also LPI. I, myself, refuse to get a
> >>> distribution specific certification. I want to learn Linux...not one
> >>> company's translation on how it should be. Of course, you could be
> >>> different. If so, Red Hat and Novell (SuSE) have certification tracks
> as
> >>> well, and they're not for the lighthearted. They're pretty tough, but
> >>> very focused on *their* distributions.
> >>>
> >>> Remember, a Linux technician is beyond a guy who replaces a piece of
> >>> hardware or a system administrator who manages systems. A person who is
> >>> known in the Linux community is a combination of hardware technician,
> >>> programmer, and engineer...with a very good understanding of how all
> the
> >>> pieces mix and match.
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, 2009-11-01 at 08:55 -0700, Sean Parsons wrote:
> >>> > Hello all –
> >>> >
> >>> > I’m new to the group, but have been working in IT fields for longer
> >>> > than I want to admit, but I see the error of my ways and I want to
> >>> > repent and be saved….. I’m considering getting Linux certification.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > I am interested in speaking with anyone who has gotten certified, or
> >>> > can give me any details about local cert classes or testing.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Thanks
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Doorman352
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
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> >
> > --
> > Skype: (623)239-3392
> > AT&T: (503)754-4452
> > www.obnosis.com
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