I'm hearing that Government is the answer to our problems. I could not disagree more.
If you want a thriving economy shrink government, reduce taxes, and allow a free market.
I think Phoenix is moving in ways you are not seeing. Look at the tech companies in Phoenix. It is exploding. You have several startups that I am familiar with 1) GoDaddy - everyone loves to hate Godaddy however a friend just got a developer's job there that pays 90k; 2) TwoWire. I'm sure there are more.
Nice thing about Phoenix is the low cost of living. You can start a business in your living room or a spare bedroom.
On the west cost you might pay over $1000 for a small apartment. When I lived in Mesa I rented a 3 bedroom 2 bath house for $875/mo. You can buy that house for that today.
Metro Phoenix is a thriving tech community. Of course this is only my perspective.
------------------------
Keith Smith
--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Joshua Zeidner <
jjzeidner@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 7:08 PM
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:50 PM, keith
> smith<klsmith2020@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think what is really missing from this equation is
> mentoring and training.
>
> what I would like to see is some real support from
> AZ government to
> help make tech companies feel welcome here. This
> means:
>
> 1) making the valley a good place not only to build
> a company but to
> build a *career*. this means buy in from both sides
> of the equation.
> I would like to see a bit more address at lower capital
> levels, but
> that may prove to be difficult. It seems that most
> existing concepts
> are kind of stuck in the industrial model, where you build
> a factory
> in a place with low taxes and hire low wage workers, but
> technology
> requires high wage workers who demand a good thriving job
> market. The
> needs are quite different. The biggest issue with
> starting a company
> out here is finding people. Where are all the
> people? in CA.
> because it has a good job market. If we can outsource
> to India, we
> sure as hell can outsource to Arizona.
>
> 2) setting up low cost legal structure and as you
> say mentoring to
> really help stimulate technology development. We've
> seen (at least
> nominal) efforts in the past. Why did they
> fail? This means real and
> adequate assistance in bringing concepts to production and
> market. A
> small investment in this area will yield returns in tax
> base and
> property value by a factor of hundreds. Arizona has
> the potential to
> pick up a lot of this commercial activity because
> California is
> currently set to become a tax strapped nightmare state to
> build your
> business. If AZ fails to see the opportunity here, we
> will lose out
> big time. Currently the budget proceedings are still
> in gridlock.
>
> the mayor of Phoenix seems to have the right idea,
> he was suggesting
> recently a green technology center near Phx center. I
> think thats the
> direction AZ needs to go. -jmz
>
> >
> > I like the idea that folks are getting together to
> network. This is a really cool idea. Even for
> non-technical stuff like finding out how people deal with
> customers, contracting, book-keeping, ETC.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------
> > Keith Smith
> >
> >
> > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in
> PHX
> >> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> >> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 6:08 PM
> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:09 PM,
> >> Alan Dayley<alandd@consultpros.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Joshua,
> >> >
> >> > I put all your replies together in one long
> document
> >> and reread them.
> >> > I am still confused a bit. Enlightenment
> via email
> >> rarely occurs.
> >> > However, I really want to understand your
> position in
> >> this discussion.
> >> > Let me summarize what I understand from
> your
> >> replies.
> >> >
> >> > ---[Start my paraphasing of your
> comments]---
> >> >
> >> > - There is a small group or groups of people
> who keep
> >> spinning off
> >> > communities using tired marketing techniques.
> This
> >> results in blogs
> >> > but not true communities.
> >> >
> >> > - Some of these people cannot deal with
> existing
> >> structure and the
> >> > efforts of the past.
> >> >
> >> > - These weak attempts do not articulate goals
> or
> >> purpose well, if at all.
> >> >
> >> > - We must honestly look at criticism to learn
> and
> >> improve.
> >> >
> >> > - These weak people need to address the
> efforts of the
> >> past and
> >> > provide suggestions on how they can be
> improved upon.
> >> >
> >> > - Getting political support will provide
> legitimacy to
> >> their efforts.
> >> >
> >> > - Phoenix will attract technology businesses
> because
> >> of the relative
> >> > low cost and this will help improve things.
> >> >
> >> > - You have first hand experiences of weak,
> marketing
> >> fronted,
> >> > community building efforts.
> >> >
> >> > - Many 'entrepreneurs' have grand ideas but
> get
> >> nowhere with them
> >> > because they are not real businesses.
> >> >
> >> > - People at a co-working location or coffee
> shop will
> >> not help you
> >> > with your business unless you pay them.
> >> >
> >> > - Most people at co-working started their one
> person
> >> business after
> >> > being laid-off and are not serious about it.
> They
> >> are really just
> >> > looking for the next full time gig. This
> will get in
> >> your way if you
> >> > have real business work to do.
> >> >
> >> > - We must look truthfully at this issue if we
> are to
> >> make progress.
> >> >
> >> > - There are no serious incubators and
> entrepreneurial
> >> meetups in
> >> > Phoenix. No announcements on VC funding of
> companies
> >> so it's not
> >> > really entrepreneurial growth.
> >> >
> >> > ---[End my paraphrasing of your comments]---
> >> >
> >> > I see validity in every one of these
> comments. I
> >> also think many of
> >> > them can be balanced by the other point of
> view. I
> >> still have
> >> > questions, if I may ask, before I state too
> much of my
> >> own thinking.
> >> > I want to learn more about your thinking.
> >> >
> >> > 1. What does "deal with existing structure"
> mean?
> >> This confuses me,
> >> > not know what structure you are talking
> about.
> >>
> >> Many user groups have been formed and continue
> to
> >> exist... how is
> >> <groupX> different? other than its led by
> >> person Y? I mean dealing
> >> with some of these groups I feel like Im back to
> age 8
> >> trying to gain
> >> admittance into the neighborhood treehouse.
> Perhaps I
> >> should spend
> >> more time drinking beer with these people?
> Seeing the
> >> same small
> >> group churning out 'communities' is at first
> funny, then
> >> annoying. I
> >> just see a real lack of serious intent, and unless
> that is
> >> noted
> >> publicly, it makes all of us look bad. I really
> dont
> >> think Im being
> >> destructive or malicious here, Im pointing out
> some valid
> >> observations.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > 2. To what efforts of the past are you
> referring? I
> >> want to
> >> > understand the size and nature of efforts to
> creating
> >> a community that
> >> > you feel were legitimate but perhaps did not
> work as
> >> planned.
> >>
> >> I remember when I first came to AZ that there
> was an
> >> tech
> >> incubator... what happened to it? Which
> >> political agents currently
> >> support technology development in the valley?
> what do
> >> they think
> >> about your org? these things are pretty
> basic...
> >>
> >> >
> >> > 3. What political support is needed? You
> mean
> >> government funding of
> >> > events or startups or just verbal support or
> what?
> >>
> >> I wouldn't expect funding, but it would be good
> to
> >> see some
> >> political buy in. Lack of just supports my
> opinions,
> >> that its really
> >> as Lisa said, camouflage for poor organization.
> >> Without any good
> >> signposts, all this will produce are people who
> get jaded
> >> and
> >> disaffected with regards to this location. If
> you had
> >> something
> >> together I doubt that a good politician would turn
> you
> >> down.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > 4. Why is it wrong or a problem for someone
> who is
> >> laid-off to have
> >> > grand ideas, talk about them and they never
> come to
> >> be?
> >>
> >> Its not. As I said, I don't find any of
> these
> >> things highly
> >> offensive- but like you I am free to express
> myself.
> >> Sorry if its not
> >> filled with abundant exaltations.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > 5. Is it not conceivable that people might
> help each
> >> other in business
> >> > efforts? Isn't strengthening and creating
> such a
> >> culture a good idea
> >> > or should such a goal not be pursued because
> it is not
> >> practically
> >> > possible?
> >>
> >> sure. good thread btw. -jmz
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Alan
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Joshua
> Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> another great one:
> >> >>
> >> >> "OK, my question stands. Where are the
> incubators,
> >> the "bootstrap"
> >> >> seminars, the serious entrepreneurial
> meetups in
> >> Phoenix??? (crickets
> >> >> chirping). Phoenix just ain't happening
> as a
> >> serious place where
> >> >> serious people are doing serious things.
> No one
> >> wants it badly enough
> >> >> here. This paper should be having at
> least one
> >> article a week on a new
> >> >> startup and the VC firm who funded it.
> >> Helloooo????? is anybody out
> >> >> there...."
> >> >>
> >> >> a better way to phrase this: we need to
> stop
> >> pretending these
> >> >> whimsical efforts churned out by local
> >> self-employed marketing experts
> >> >> are sufficient. They are not. We
> should be
> >> asking the hard
> >> >> questions, not playing games.
> >> >>
> >> >> -jmz
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Joshua
> >> Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>> another point, honestly reading
> through some
> >> of the criticisms on
> >> >>> azcentral and being of the cafe
> dwelling creed
> >> myself, I'd have to say
> >> >>> that many of those points are
> accurate. I've
> >> heard lots of
> >> >>> 'entrepreneurs' with big ideas around
> here who
> >> never get anywhere with
> >> >>> them. Sorry, but a word press
> template
> >> doesn't make you an
> >> >>> entrepreneur.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "These are the same people you see
> at
> >> Starbucks, Boarders or any
> >> >>> other wi-fi hot spot, they are not
> >> entrepreneurs they are attention
> >> >>> (inappropriate term)."
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Many of the Co-Worker location
> founders
> >> tout other people to
> >> >>> collaborate with and who can
> "compensate for
> >> your deficiencies". Do
> >> >>> you really believe someone that you
> are not
> >> paying as an employee is
> >> >>> going to somehow compensate for your
> >> deficiencies and make your
> >> >>> business better? That kind of help
> doesn't
> >> come without a price."
> >> >>>
> >> >>> oh so true...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "You are more likely to get a bunch
> of
> >> people chatting to you over
> >> >>> your "work" so you wont be
> concentrating as
> >> you should to focus on
> >> >>> your business. Most of these people
> started
> >> businesses after being
> >> >>> laid off. They are searching for a
> new job and
> >> they aren't really
> >> >>> serious about their "businesses" so
> how do you
> >> expect them to give you
> >> >>> valuable, serious advice. Are these
> the kind
> >> of people you need to
> >> >>> compensate for your deficiencies? A
> bunch of
> >> people half-as running
> >> >>> their "business" while searching for
> a real
> >> job and bothering you with
> >> >>> their expertise that got them laid
> off in the
> >> first place."
> >> >>>
> >> >>> oh so so true...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I would be willing to bet the
> commenter
> >> above is an tried and true
> >> >>> successful entrepreneur. Perhaps
> the reason
> >> I am so skeptical is
> >> >>> because I know these kind of people
> so well.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> sorry I really wish I could be
> more
> >> supportive... but : truth is
> >> >>> the foundation of progress.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> -jmz
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:28 PM,
> Joshua
> >> Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>>> Alan,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Wish I had time to respond
> to all
> >> these points right now, not sure
> >> >>>> you read me the way I would
> prefer
> >> however. Its not so grave a
> >> >>>> warning, just getting the word
> out on my
> >> first hand experiences. Im
> >> >>>> just one of many- but hopefully
> an
> >> impartial observer and someone
> >> >>>> genuinely concerned for AZ.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> all the best, jmz
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:12 PM,
> Alan
> >> Dayley<alandd@consultpros.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>>>> Josh,
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> I feel warned. And I don't
> >> understand the reason for such a strong warning.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> There are people in every
> industry,
> >> government or community who wish
> >> >>>>> to fleece their "community"
> for their
> >> own profit instead of mutual
> >> >>>>> benefit. The trick is to
> find the
> >> positive people and ignore the
> >> >>>>> rest. Apply the same filter
> with
> >> every event, group or blogger in the
> >> >>>>> lists and links I provided.
> I don't
> >> expect bloggers or techies to be
> >> >>>>> any different, as if being
> techie
> >> makes one a saint.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Some of those bloggers are
> purely
> >> commercial or completely neglected,
> >> >>>>> I'm sure. Some of the
> groups or
> >> events or sites listed are lousy,
> >> >>>>> boring or poor marketing
> excuses to
> >> sell something. Some are not out
> >> >>>>> to create community but to
> build a
> >> "kingdom" for their own benefit.
> >> >>>>> They are the duds.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Let's look at a few
> positives:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - Read the Gangplank
> Manifesto on
> >> their home page at
> >> >>>>> http://gangplankhq.com. That looks like
> >> a great articulation of their
> >> >>>>> goals and purpose. Ones I
> strongly
> >> support!
> >> >>>>> -- Read how the manifesto
> came to be
> >> on Derek's blog at
> >> >>>>> http://derekneighbors.com/2009/07/collaborative-writing-or-how-the-gangplank-manifesto-was-written/
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - Gangplank has hosted or is
> hosting:
> >> >>>>> -- MobiFest - a day long
> conference on
> >> developing for phones like
> >> >>>>> iPhone or Android
> >> >>>>> -- Gangplank Jr. - a 2-3 hour
> Saturday
> >> event for kids 5-15 to learn
> >> >>>>> programming concepts
> >> >>>>> -- Wordpress training classes
> for
> >> minimal cost or no-cost for non-profit orgs
> >> >>>>> -- Laid Off Camp - a day
> long
> >> conference on job searching and entreprenuership
> >> >>>>> -- Barcamp Pheonix - a day
> long
> >> conference on software development
> >> >>>>> -- TEDx night - Watch ted.com
> videos
> >> and discuss them
> >> >>>>> -- OpenPhoenix - a night of
> open mic
> >> music and entertainment
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - The last http://desertcodecamp.com/ was held on June 13th and
> >> nearly
> >> >>>>> filled DeVry's Phoenix campus
> with
> >> developers talking about code or
> >> >>>>> making code. Free lunch of
> pizza and
> >> sub sandwiches was provided too.
> >> >>>>> Put together by
> volunteers.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - If you're into Microsoft
> based
> >> development tech, the people who
> >> >>>>> maintain the http://azgroups.com site do an annual all-day event at
> >> >>>>> venues like the Orphium
> Theater and at
> >> no cost to attendees. Fine,
> >> >>>>> it's marketing for MS but
> it's put on
> >> by volunteers here in the valley
> >> >>>>> and a great way for people to
> learn
> >> about things that improve their
> >> >>>>> career skills.
> >> >>>>> (http://www.componentart.com/BLOGS/milos/archive/2009/06/02/scott-guthrie-event-2009-phoenix-az.aspx)
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - The local Ruby On Rails
> group has
> >> monthly meetings with around 30
> >> >>>>> regularly in attendance.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - The Java group is also well
> attended
> >> every month.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - The third http://podcampaz.com/ is coming up in November, put on
> >> by
> >> >>>>> voluteers at no cost
> (donation
> >> requested) to attendees. Had about 350
> >> >>>>> people attend last year (if I
> recall)
> >> for two days of conference.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - The http://azentrepreneurship.com/ conference will be in
> >> November
> >> >>>>> for the forth year. This
> one costs
> >> $100+ but should be as well
> >> >>>>> attended as last year with
> 200+
> >> people. Funded and organized in part
> >> >>>>> by a local venture capital
> group.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - The first http://ignitephoenix.com event was held a year ago
> with
> >> a
> >> >>>>> little over 100 in attendance
> and has
> >> grown to fill the 600 seat
> >> >>>>> Theather at Tempe Center for
> the Arts
> >> back in June. The connections
> >> >>>>> made there live well past the
> event.
> >> >>>>> -- Oh, a city council member
> and the
> >> mayor of Tempe spoke this last
> >> >>>>> time, though he was a bit
> silly trying
> >> to be Tempe exclusive. That
> >> >>>>> seems to be at least verbal
> political
> >> support.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> - The second ABLEConf on
> FS/OSS is
> >> being planned for October and
> >> >>>>> should be better than last
> year. (Go
> >> Hans and team!)
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> I'm not going to go on,
> though I could
> >> point out several purely social
> >> >>>>> events like http://phoenixfridaynights.com/, it's east and west
> >> valley
> >> >>>>> analogs, East Valley Thursday
> Morning
> >> breakfasts, Tempe Geeks Lunch,
> >> >>>>> South Valley Geek Meet and
> Eat and
> >> Gangplank's Brown Gag lunch
> >> >>>>> presentations every
> Wednesday.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Now, having said all of that
> "giddy
> >> blind optimism," I'd like to
> >> >>>>> understand how the above does
> not
> >> address the efforts of the past or
> >> >>>>> provide improvement over past
> efforts.
> >> What are the real needs of the
> >> >>>>> community, if not some of the
> above?
> >> What would you suggest? How can
> >> >>>>> PLUG be a part of it?
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Alan
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:34
> PM,
> >> Joshua Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>>>>> Alan,
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> while I appreciate
> your post,
> >> and anyone who is making a sincere
> >> >>>>>> effort to build community
> in
> >> Phoenix... be warned. There are some
> >> >>>>>> small groups who
> periodically
> >> spawn off new 'communities' every month
> >> >>>>>> or so. Look closely and
> you see
> >> the same few people with reused
> >> >>>>>> marketing recipes. Lots
> of blog
> >> and not too much community I'm
> >> >>>>>> afraid. Their efforts
> amount to
> >> some simple branding and putting up a
> >> >>>>>> blog. While these
> things are not
> >> really particularily offensive to
> >> >>>>>> me, they do somewhat
> detract from
> >> interest in the real needs of the
> >> >>>>>> community here. Some of
> these
> >> people are just outright idiotic and
> >> >>>>>> cannot deal with
> existing
> >> structure and refuse to accept the history
> >> >>>>>> of efforts in the past.
> They
> >> lack any articulation of their goals and
> >> >>>>>> purpose. Often times
> they have
> >> trouble organizing even small groups
> >> >>>>>> of 2 or 3. Dont forget
> we've had
> >> a tech incubator here. Lets not
> >> >>>>>> smack down sincere
> criticism in
> >> favor of giddy blind optimism,
> >> >>>>>> remember you can't
> improve without
> >> criticism. I would take these
> >> >>>>>> people much more
> seriously if they
> >> addressed the efforts of the past
> >> >>>>>> and perhaps suggested how
> they are
> >> going to improve on them, or
> >> >>>>>> perhaps indicate what has
> changed
> >> that will make them a success.
> >> >>>>>> Maybe seeking real
> political
> >> support would gain some legitimacy.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> on the positive
> side, I think
> >> Phoenix will attract a lot of
> >> >>>>>> technology business due
> to its
> >> relative low cost and no doubt you will
> >> >>>>>> start to see community
> >> infrastructure grow. We are seeing some real
> >> >>>>>> urban development
> happening in Phx
> >> metro which has me very excited. I
> >> >>>>>> think when the
> macroeconomic
> >> problems are sorted out we will see
> >> >>>>>> downtown Phx bloom. Im
> hoping
> >> that the average Arizonan gets involved
> >> >>>>>> in the political process
> and make
> >> sure that the corruption stays out
> >> >>>>>> of city and state
> politics.
> >> Coming from NY, Im recognizing a lot of
> >> >>>>>> positive development
> trends in Phx
> >> metro.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> -jmz
> >> >>>>>
> >>
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> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
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