PLUG netiquette (was trolls flamefest)

[Joshua Zeidner]

On 8/29/07, Alan Dayley <alandd at consultpros.com> wrote:
>
> Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 8/29/07, *keith smith* <klsmith2020 at yahoo.com
> > <mailto:klsmith2020 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >     Add PLUG reserves the right to suspend or remove any account not in
> >     compliance.
> >
> >
> >
> >   And for my reference, WHO is PLUG?
>
> Straight to the point.  WE are PLUG.
>
> There is a Steering Committee with a chair person but, they direct the
> group in a "benevolent dictator" style, sort of...  The committee does
> makes sure stuff happens but has no real force of control.  There are no
> by-laws or hard rules for the committee to lean on or point at.  PLUG
> members follow or don't or grumble or yell as they see fit.
>
> So, your point is taken.  If anyone is reserving the right to ban
> someone, who has that right and what are the criteria?  I don't know the
> answer to that question.



  Honestly, I've been through this with one group already here in Phoenix.
Usually if something happens someone doesn't like, they evoke the hidden and
mysterious powers of moderation.  Behind this somewhat ridiculous fig-leaf
is some callow sheepish dude who has the password to the listserv.  Very
funny stuff in my view.

  I can say this: without clear leadership, there will be no clear purpose.
If the person who recently offered up his grandfatherly opinion of the whole
thing feels he is in the position of leadership here, he should make that
abundantly clear.  Not because I am challenging that leadership, I would
just like to know who is running the show if anyone.

  I am in touch with Jason and I want to make it clear that it was not my
intention to smear him.  I do not make any claims against his character.  He
has made job postings on here after our work engagement and I made no
attempt to interfere with that.  I asked for a simple thing, and my
intention here was to help clear up some confusion.  I will make a sincere
attempt to reconcile our disputes.

  In a general, I have recently moved out of Phoenix, primarily because I
found the work environment here quite lacking.  I could tell you quite a
number of stories of my experiences around here[1], but there is a
sufficient trail of listserv activity to point to some of my experiences.  I
think that Phoenix is currently facing some serious challenges as a city...
and there are going to be inevitable changes whether they are welcomed by
old-timers or not.  I am quite sure that recent activity in financial
markets has hit a number of people on this list directly.

  To address Joseph S.'s comments, for a list or a business venue to
function correctly, you have to support buyers AND sellers, employers AND
employees.  I know that a number of regular contributors are of the hobbyist
temperament, and see these kinds of points to be irrelevant and annoying.
Banning feedback on job ads may seem like a great way to attract employers,
because they feel safer in making whatever claims they please.  The problem
is, that the actual value of the ads degrade, and developers start to take a
somewhat non-committal attitude towards working with these parties[3].  What
phoenix currently needs is some kind of reputable venue for IT contracting,
and I've voiced these concerns before[2].  Silicon Valley (where I currently
reside) is literally bulging at the seams with out-of-control cost scales
and somewhat of a vacuum of lucrative ideas.  There are people here who make
$300K a year designing applications to scrape your address book from your
gmail account.  Phoenix /does/ have potential in that sense, but it lacks
the legal and commercial infrastructure to support the kind of commercial
activity found in Silicon Valley.  This infrastructure was built by folks
not unlike yourselves, who just have a basic fascination with technology and
its possibilities and decided make the government work for them instead of
against them.

   Alan, I appreciate your attitude here- I think you are looking out for
whats best for all the participants here.  thanks.  jmz




[1] there is one person on this list that I responded to a job ad, and his
'CTO' refused to give me his last name!  this person later was recommended
by someone else on this list!

[2] there are key deficiencies in AZ law as compared to that of CA law.
some of the more important aspects are employment law and NCAs.

[3] 'no flakes' is perhaps the most common request in web development job
postings.




Better yet, I don't want to need to know the answer to that question.
>
> In the history of PLUG that I know, no one has ever been banned.  Ever.
> I'd much rather continue as it has all these years.  Self policing
> works and this group is very good at it.
>
> I, for one, would not want the power to ban anyone.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
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-- 
.0000. communication.
.0001. development.
.0010. strategy.
.0100. appeal.

JOSHUA M. ZEIDNER
IT Consultant

( 602 ) 490 8006
jjzeidner at gmail.com
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