PLUG netiquette (was trolls flamefest)

Wed Aug 29 17:04:03 MST 2007

Why must we flame? Where is the love? The community?

Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> 
> 
> On 8/29/07, *Alan Dayley* <alandd at consultpros.com 
> <mailto:alandd at consultpros.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Joshua Zeidner wrote:
>      >
>      >
>      > On 8/29/07, *keith smith* <klsmith2020 at yahoo.com
>     <mailto:klsmith2020 at yahoo.com>
>      > <mailto:klsmith2020 at yahoo.com <mailto:klsmith2020 at yahoo.com> >>
>     wrote:
>      >
>      >
>      >     Add PLUG reserves the right to suspend or remove any account
>     not in
>      >     compliance.
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >   And for my reference, WHO is PLUG?
> 
>     Straight to the point.  WE are PLUG.
> 
>     There is a Steering Committee with a chair person but, they direct the
>     group in a "benevolent dictator" style, sort of...  The committee does
>     makes sure stuff happens but has no real force of control.  There
>     are no
>     by-laws or hard rules for the committee to lean on or point at.  PLUG
>     members follow or don't or grumble or yell as they see fit.
> 
>     So, your point is taken.  If anyone is reserving the right to ban
>     someone, who has that right and what are the criteria?  I don't know
>     the
>     answer to that question.
> 
> 
> 
>   Honestly, I've been through this with one group already here in 
> Phoenix.  Usually if something happens someone doesn't like, they evoke 
> the hidden and mysterious powers of moderation.  Behind this somewhat 
> ridiculous fig-leaf is some callow sheepish dude who has the password to 
> the listserv.  Very funny stuff in my view.
> 
>   I can say this: without clear leadership, there will be no clear 
> purpose.  If the person who recently offered up his grandfatherly 
> opinion of the whole thing feels he is in the position of leadership 
> here, he should make that abundantly clear.  Not because I am 
> challenging that leadership, I would just like to know who is running 
> the show if anyone.
> 
>   I am in touch with Jason and I want to make it clear that it was not 
> my intention to smear him.  I do not make any claims against his 
> character.  He has made job postings on here after our work engagement 
> and I made no attempt to interfere with that.  I asked for a simple 
> thing, and my intention here was to help clear up some confusion.  I 
> will make a sincere attempt to reconcile our disputes.
> 
>   In a general, I have recently moved out of Phoenix, primarily because 
> I found the work environment here quite lacking.  I could tell you quite 
> a number of stories of my experiences around here[1], but there is a 
> sufficient trail of listserv activity to point to some of my 
> experiences.  I think that Phoenix is currently facing some serious 
> challenges as a city... and there are going to be inevitable changes 
> whether they are welcomed by old-timers or not.  I am quite sure that 
> recent activity in financial markets has hit a number of people on this 
> list directly.
> 
>   To address Joseph S.'s comments, for a list or a business venue to 
> function correctly, you have to support buyers AND sellers, employers 
> AND employees.  I know that a number of regular contributors are of the 
> hobbyist temperament, and see these kinds of points to be irrelevant and 
> annoying.  Banning feedback on job ads may seem like a great way to 
> attract employers, because they feel safer in making whatever claims 
> they please.  The problem is, that the actual value of the ads degrade, 
> and developers start to take a somewhat non-committal attitude towards 
> working with these parties[3].  What phoenix currently needs is some 
> kind of reputable venue for IT contracting, and I've voiced these 
> concerns before[2].  Silicon Valley (where I currently reside) is 
> literally bulging at the seams with out-of-control cost scales and 
> somewhat of a vacuum of lucrative ideas.  There are people here who make 
> $300K a year designing applications to scrape your address book from 
> your gmail account.  Phoenix /does/ have potential in that sense, but it 
> lacks the legal and commercial infrastructure to support the kind of 
> commercial activity found in Silicon Valley.  This infrastructure was 
> built by folks not unlike yourselves, who just have a basic fascination 
> with technology and its possibilities and decided make the government 
> work for them instead of against them.
> 
>    Alan, I appreciate your attitude here- I think you are looking out 
> for whats best for all the participants here.  thanks.  jmz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [1] there is one person on this list that I responded to a job ad, and 
> his 'CTO' refused to give me his last name!  this person later was 
> recommended by someone else on this list!
> 
> [2] there are key deficiencies in AZ law as compared to that of CA law.  
> some of the more important aspects are employment law and NCAs.
> 
> [3] 'no flakes' is perhaps the most common request in web development 
> job postings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     Better yet, I don't want to need to know the answer to that question.
> 
>     In the history of PLUG that I know, no one has ever been banned.  Ever.
>     I'd much rather continue as it has all these years.  Self policing
>     works and this group is very good at it.
> 
>     I, for one, would not want the power to ban anyone.
> 
>     Alan
> 
> 
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------
>     PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
>     <mailto:PLUG-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
>     To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
>     http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> .0000. communication.
> .0001. development.
> .0010. strategy.            
> .0100. appeal.
> 
> JOSHUA M. ZEIDNER
> IT Consultant
> 
> ( 602 ) 490 8006
> jjzeidner at gmail.com <mailto:jjzeidner at gmail.com>
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss at lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: tuna.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 109 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/pipermail/plug-discuss/attachments/20070829/8b60e52b/attachment.vcf 