Thanks for your feedback David!!
Here is where I am coming from. I think there are 3 types of people.
System Admin, business folks, and hobbyists. I used to have a friend
who is a sys admin and a programmer. He does all his own hosting.
There is a person on the list that has referred to his home lab a few
times. I suspect most have some level of a home lab.
I was doing some research and found there is demand for learning how to
build and maintain a web server out of ones home/home office/home lab.
My commercial advice is don't do it. Much cheaper to rent shared
hosting or a VPS. That is my advice to a business owners.
Having said that I was able to configure an old laptop as a web server +
Bind+Postfix+Dovecot+let's Encrypt... and possible some other packages.
I did it to learn and in the end I liked the fact that I could do so. As
you know I am a PHP dev. I made mention at the time that I had bragging
rights. Was a big accomplishment for me. I assume being able to build
a full stack web server pushes me in the realm of being a full-stack
developer.
The motivation for this post was based on some research I performed that
showed there is a fair amount of interest in leaning how to build and
maintain a web server out of ones home/home office/home lab.
I posted hoping for feedback on what others might know of the demand.
I learned a lot the first go around and would like to learn more. And
as you know I have a YouTube channel and blog. I would like to share my
experience with others.
Keith
On 2025-04-19 21:47, David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss wrote:
> I guess this all depends on if this is just a hobby for you or
> something you want to make money from.
>
> Here’s my opinion; it’s not exactly what you’re wanting to hear, but
> it’s a legitimate option… I may have mentioned it before.
>
> Take a look at Latenode. It’s an automation service, functionally
> similar to Zapier, Make, Pabbly, and others, but I think its a lot more
> affordable.
>
> Most web apps these days require logic to be hidden in a back-end
> service to keep people from accessing your keys. As a result, the
> majority of things the back-ends do is forwarding requests on to other
> services, including DBs, AIs, and other things.
>
> I really do not want to deal with my own server ANYWHERE — at home or
> anywhere else in the world, especially if I can build little modular
> services accessible as webhooks on an automation platform. The servers
> they run on are fast, scalable, and made for heavy-duty use. (Mostly
> cloud-based, I’m guessing.)
>
> I can’t speak to the security issues, but nothing I’m doing is worse
> than keeping my backend “secret keys” out of reach from the front-end
> users. (If you don’t, they end up in your browser in clear-text and
> they can be scraped without much trouble.)
>
> If you’re really that paranoid and worried about stuff that it makes
> sense to become an expert on all of those server-side tools on a server
> you keep hidden in your home or office, then knock yourself out. I
> don’t care; I don’t want to care, or even keep up with the changes
> they’re constantly undergoing. I want to be able to quickly set up a
> proxy to sit between my front-end and some other service that gets me
> what I want without having to manage anything you mentioned.
>
> If you need some custom programming, then Latenode allows you to use
> javascript in their nodes. Pickaxe works with Python, and it can even
> help you write the code.
>
> (Pickaxe is an interesting 2-faced thing, part of which is an
> app-builder and part of which is has some basic logic and it can
> trigger webhooks to other back-end services, including automation
> services. They only mention Zapier and Make, but their interface is not
> specific to either one except in name only. It works fine with
> Latenode, Pabbly, and others. I think something called Lemonade is
> somewhat competitive with Pickaxe.)
>
> I know, folks on this list are going to complain that these services
> are not free except for trivial purposes to get familiar with them. But
> I value my time far more and I don’t mind paying a couple hundred bucks
> a month to have SEVERAL high-quality services managed for me so I don’t
> have to deal with anything to keep them running. I did that for a while
> on a Windows VPS (which I had to use b/c the code I needed only targets
> Windows) and problems were constantly coming up; unfortunately, the VPS
> host didn’t provide an support.
>
> I bought a small Windows box to run at home to replace the VPS, but I
> decided I can do pretty much anything I need on Latenode. So it’s just
> sitting there.
>
> I learned how to admin Unix boxes back in the 80’s, and it has always
> been one of my least favorite things to do. I’m very happy to pay
> people the cost of one restaurant dinner per month to keep my services
> working. But my goal is to use these services to make money, at which
> point the costs are going to be minscule compared to the potential
> revenues.
>
> If it’s not a hobby, then you need to decide if you want to work ON
> your business or IN your business. Running your own server means it’s
> all on you. Outsourcing it lets you work ON your business.
>
> TBH, I’m getting away from programming and all of this admin crap. It’s
> about frigging time we’re seeing things start to bury this stuff behind
> walls that are being run by AI services. Dealing with AI prompts and
> automation tools is the future, IMHO. Working with stuff that’s still
> clearly recognizable today from what it looked like in the 80’s is
> hardly “progress”. I’ve had people ask me over time, “Why don’t you get
> certified to work on Cisco hardware?” I used to write code for devices
> like that back in the 80’s, and it looks like it HAS NOT CHANGED AT
> ALL, just like talking to modems and Epson printer escape codes.
>
> This is 2025; I’ve been there, done that, and AI is the future. Prompts
> are actually structured a lot like imperative programming code but they
> use normal language to explain things. Unfortunately, if you don’t know
> the basics of imperative programming, you’re going to miss a lot of
> details and mess up the structure. And if you aren’t an SME in the
> domain you’re trying to get AI to do for you, you’re screwed.
>
> Just my thoughts.
>
> -David Schwartz
>
>
>
>
>> On Apr 19, 2025, at 6:10 PM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss
>> <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I did some research and it appears there is a lot of demand for
>> content that covers how to create a web server out of home/home
>> office/home lab.
>>
>> I assume this means Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP + Bind9, Postfix,
>> Dovecot, some form of webmail, Let Encrypt, and possibly other
>> servers/software.
>>
>> What does the list think on this subject?
>>
>> Keith
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