Thanks for your feedback David!! Here is where I am coming from. I think there are 3 types of people. System Admin, business folks, and hobbyists. I used to have a friend who is a sys admin and a programmer. He does all his own hosting. There is a person on the list that has referred to his home lab a few times. I suspect most have some level of a home lab. I was doing some research and found there is demand for learning how to build and maintain a web server out of ones home/home office/home lab. My commercial advice is don't do it. Much cheaper to rent shared hosting or a VPS. That is my advice to a business owners. Having said that I was able to configure an old laptop as a web server + Bind+Postfix+Dovecot+let's Encrypt... and possible some other packages. I did it to learn and in the end I liked the fact that I could do so. As you know I am a PHP dev. I made mention at the time that I had bragging rights. Was a big accomplishment for me. I assume being able to build a full stack web server pushes me in the realm of being a full-stack developer. The motivation for this post was based on some research I performed that showed there is a fair amount of interest in leaning how to build and maintain a web server out of ones home/home office/home lab. I posted hoping for feedback on what others might know of the demand. I learned a lot the first go around and would like to learn more. And as you know I have a YouTube channel and blog. I would like to share my experience with others. Keith On 2025-04-19 21:47, David Schwartz via PLUG-discuss wrote: > I guess this all depends on if this is just a hobby for you or > something you want to make money from. > > Here’s my opinion; it’s not exactly what you’re wanting to hear, but > it’s a legitimate option… I may have mentioned it before. > > Take a look at Latenode. It’s an automation service, functionally > similar to Zapier, Make, Pabbly, and others, but I think its a lot more > affordable. > > Most web apps these days require logic to be hidden in a back-end > service to keep people from accessing your keys. As a result, the > majority of things the back-ends do is forwarding requests on to other > services, including DBs, AIs, and other things. > > I really do not want to deal with my own server ANYWHERE — at home or > anywhere else in the world, especially if I can build little modular > services accessible as webhooks on an automation platform. The servers > they run on are fast, scalable, and made for heavy-duty use. (Mostly > cloud-based, I’m guessing.) > > I can’t speak to the security issues, but nothing I’m doing is worse > than keeping my backend “secret keys” out of reach from the front-end > users. (If you don’t, they end up in your browser in clear-text and > they can be scraped without much trouble.) > > If you’re really that paranoid and worried about stuff that it makes > sense to become an expert on all of those server-side tools on a server > you keep hidden in your home or office, then knock yourself out. I > don’t care; I don’t want to care, or even keep up with the changes > they’re constantly undergoing. I want to be able to quickly set up a > proxy to sit between my front-end and some other service that gets me > what I want without having to manage anything you mentioned. > > If you need some custom programming, then Latenode allows you to use > javascript in their nodes. Pickaxe works with Python, and it can even > help you write the code. > > (Pickaxe is an interesting 2-faced thing, part of which is an > app-builder and part of which is has some basic logic and it can > trigger webhooks to other back-end services, including automation > services. They only mention Zapier and Make, but their interface is not > specific to either one except in name only. It works fine with > Latenode, Pabbly, and others. I think something called Lemonade is > somewhat competitive with Pickaxe.) > > I know, folks on this list are going to complain that these services > are not free except for trivial purposes to get familiar with them. But > I value my time far more and I don’t mind paying a couple hundred bucks > a month to have SEVERAL high-quality services managed for me so I don’t > have to deal with anything to keep them running. I did that for a while > on a Windows VPS (which I had to use b/c the code I needed only targets > Windows) and problems were constantly coming up; unfortunately, the VPS > host didn’t provide an support. > > I bought a small Windows box to run at home to replace the VPS, but I > decided I can do pretty much anything I need on Latenode. So it’s just > sitting there. > > I learned how to admin Unix boxes back in the 80’s, and it has always > been one of my least favorite things to do. I’m very happy to pay > people the cost of one restaurant dinner per month to keep my services > working. But my goal is to use these services to make money, at which > point the costs are going to be minscule compared to the potential > revenues. > > If it’s not a hobby, then you need to decide if you want to work ON > your business or IN your business. Running your own server means it’s > all on you. Outsourcing it lets you work ON your business. > > TBH, I’m getting away from programming and all of this admin crap. It’s > about frigging time we’re seeing things start to bury this stuff behind > walls that are being run by AI services. Dealing with AI prompts and > automation tools is the future, IMHO. Working with stuff that’s still > clearly recognizable today from what it looked like in the 80’s is > hardly “progress”. I’ve had people ask me over time, “Why don’t you get > certified to work on Cisco hardware?” I used to write code for devices > like that back in the 80’s, and it looks like it HAS NOT CHANGED AT > ALL, just like talking to modems and Epson printer escape codes. > > This is 2025; I’ve been there, done that, and AI is the future. Prompts > are actually structured a lot like imperative programming code but they > use normal language to explain things. Unfortunately, if you don’t know > the basics of imperative programming, you’re going to miss a lot of > details and mess up the structure. And if you aren’t an SME in the > domain you’re trying to get AI to do for you, you’re screwed. > > Just my thoughts. > > -David Schwartz > > > > >> On Apr 19, 2025, at 6:10 PM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss >> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I did some research and it appears there is a lot of demand for >> content that covers how to create a web server out of home/home >> office/home lab. >> >> I assume this means Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP + Bind9, Postfix, >> Dovecot, some form of webmail, Let Encrypt, and possibly other >> servers/software. >> >> What does the list think on this subject? >> >> Keith >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list: PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss