Re: Open Sourcing Automotive Diagnostics

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Author: Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss
Date:  
To: PLUG-discuss
CC: Ryan Petris
Subject: Re: Open Sourcing Automotive Diagnostics
I don't know about getting rid of *all* emissions regulations, but at least those that cause undue stress on the engines and extra unnecessary cost would be great. For instance, catalytic converters generally aren't a problem; they're just there in the exhaust and actually help to reduce the noise; it's only when they get clogged that's a problem. However, other systems like the EGR system gum up the intakes and cause problems over time. Additionally, I drive a diesel and the whole SCR system absurd both in complexity and cost to save a minuscule amount of emissions.

I've been following Rossmann for a long time and he has a lot of good takes on stuff. I don't know about forcing manufacturers to make parts available, however the manufacturer shouldn't be able to enter into agreements to make parts unavailable. For instance Apple will go to manufacturers to make slight generally unnecessary changes to their chips and then have them sign an agreement saying that they'll only sell said chips to Apple, so then you're unable to procure replacement parts from outside sources like DigiKey.

Then there's the digital lockout of systems requiring some kind of programmer to get replacement parts to talk to eachother, which Apple is guilty of and I believe John Deere does the same. In that case, I'd say that yeah there should be some way for a regular consumer to at least override/bypass that so that they can get their equipment to work on their own without the manufacturer being involved.

There's another Youtuber similar to Rossmann named Dave Jones, who runs the EEVBlog YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@EEVblog

I think one of his sayings is something like "you don't own it until you've voided the warranty".

On that note, if y'all are looking for modular/repairable laptops, I've been buying laptops from Framework since they came into existence something like 5 years ago now. They've been pretty good. They're about to release some new stuff on the 25th. https://frame.work/

So far they have a 13 and 16 inch chassis with various board options. The 13 inch has had several generations of intel, the 11th, 12th, 13th, and the more recent 1X5H chips (whatever "generation" those are now), as well as an AMD 7X40 version. The 16 inch has only had a 7X40 mainboard version but it's only a year old; I'm hoping for an upgraded mainboard in the announcement in a couple weeks.

On Thu, Feb 13, 2025, at 7:37 AM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote:
>
> I was a Chevy man during my youth. I found Chevy's where easy to work
> on and I generally just liked their cars.
>
> In AZ emissions is required for all cars 67 and newer. Might be 68. I
> understand that the Trump Administration might be doing away with
> emissions requirements. I sure hope so. The oil embargo and emissions
> killed the muscle car era.
>
> Sometime ago I ran into this guy :
> https://www.youtube.com/@rossmanngroup/videos
>
> Are you aware of him?
>
> I think if you buy something you should have the right to repair it.
> That includes access to reasonably priced parts and even having the
> manuals online.
>
> John Deere has found itself on the wrong side of the right to repair
> issue and look what it is costing them.
>
> I support your effort!!! It is the American way to stand up for what is
> right, and if that includes Linux, I am extremely excited.
>
> Keith
>
>
> On 2025-02-12 21:12, Pablo Camacho via PLUG-discuss wrote:
> > I agree with the points that you made, Keith. Indeed, very true,
> > electronics will not last as long as the car, yet the use of the car
> > depends on them.
> >
> > I like less electronics in my car as well which is why I tried to
> > maintain my 2001 Hyundai Accent for as long as I could.
> >
> > My dream car would be one that is modular, easy to repair, and has
> > easy access to critical parts in the engine bay that can be replaced.
> > The car version of a Framework laptop.
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 7:02 PM Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss
> > <> wrote:
> >
> >> I might step on some toes so forgive me up front.
> >>
> >> You said "I am very interested in using a Linux based computers and
> >> Open
> >> Source computer systems to diagnose and maintain automobiles..."
> >>
> >> I'm an old guy. From around 1972 to around 1984 I was a muscle car
> >> guy.
> >> No electronics in those cars. I like it that way.
> >>
> >> I hate that cars have electrons. I'm ok with an am/fm radio,
> >> electric
> >> windows (to a point), anything else is too much for me.
> >>
> >> You buy a car today and it's electronics are outdated in 5 years.
> >> The
> >> car can go 30 years/300k miles. But the electronics cannot keep up.
> >>
> >> Ok so what you are thinking of doing sounds exciting, especially if
> >> you
> >> can replace the manufacture's electronics with some Linux based
> >> homegrown system.
> >>
> >> Right to Repair is a big deal and you might be on the leading edge
> >> of
> >> something big...
> >>
> >> Keith
> >>
> >> On 2025-02-12 18:13, greg zegan via PLUG-discuss wrote:
> >>> I have been wanting to ask about this subject as well because I am
> >>> seriously considering this subject:
> >>>
> >>> OPEN SOURCING AUTOMOTIVE DIAGNOSTICS
> >>>
> >>> Open Sourcing Automotive Diagnostics [1]
> >>>
> >>> OPEN SOURCING AUTOMOTIVE DIAGNOSTICS
> >>>
> >>> I am very interested in using a Linux based computers and Open
> >> Source
> >>> computer systems to diagnose and maintain automobiles. I really
> >> think
> >>> there could be an open market on repairs because of the cost of
> >> modern
> >>> automobiles and tractors is so high.
> >>>
> >>> I use to work for CNHI for a short contract a few years ago and
> >> they
> >>> along with John Deere are causing farmers to complain to the point
> >> of
> >>> states like Nebraska coming out with laws making it legal for them
> >> to
> >>> "hack" the computer system so they can use a malfunctioning
> >> computer
> >>> system in a tractor and get their crop harvested or planted.
> >>>
> >>> I heard in the Ukraine they are openly providing hacks and cracks
> >> to
> >>> the farmers so they can use the tractors saving them money.
> >> American
> >>> farmers were rumored to be downloading these tools to fix their
> >>> computer systems here in America.
> >>>
> >>> I would really like to see free market forces in play for auto
> >> owners
> >>> so they can remove factory equipment favor of open source products
> >> and
> >>> computer systems that would compliment this activity.
> >>>
> >>> Beyond that, I would find it very interesting if there were a
> >> forum
> >>> and symposium on this subject here in the Phoenix area. It would
> >>> offer a range of subjects such as securing your auto and how to
> >> get
> >>> the most out of an auto.
> >>>
> >>> So if you have ideas please share.
> >>>
> >>> thanks,
> >>> Greg
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Links:
> >>> ------
> >>> [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qcBVxCZr4k
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