Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss said on Tue, 25 Oct 2022 06:30:34 -0700
>I don't really have the time to reply to all of this,
And yet here you are.
> but I did want
>to reply to a couple of things.
>
>> Let them go back to windows. Not everybody belongs in the Linux
>> world.
>
>This. This right here is why you shouldn't be giving advice to
>newbies. This is the wrong attitude to have if you want to new people
>involved with Linux.
Not all newbies. The ones who should go back to windows are the ones
not willing to learn Linux. Linux was never intended for the dweeb
whose computer interactions are email, web, and porn. Linux has always
been, and continues to be, for those who want to boss their computers,
not for those who want their computers to boss them.
Did you just emerge from 1999, when we thought everyone would be using
Linux on the desktop and laptop in a couple years? It's 2022, and Linux
slaughtered Microsoft and Apple (and proprietary Unix) on the server,
but still has only a dedicated core of desktop users. The KDE, Gnome
and systemd you tout erect barriers to those desktop users who want to
boss their computers, and who want at least some POSIX.
And don't forget that the lead developer on the systemd project now
works for Microsoft. What could *possibly* go wrong?
>New people are a good thing, they have new ideas
>and new directions that they want to go, and will take things to
>places never thought before. To push them out will create a dying
>community.
Like I said, I recommend working with users willing to use Linux.
>For new people, easier is better, hence GNOME or KDE being a good
>recommendation.
There's absolutely nothing easy or intuitive about Gnome3. If you want
easy and intuitive, LXDE and LXQt are what you want.
Have you ever used them? XFCE is also in that category, although on
Linux (as opposed to OpenBSD) I've found XFCE glitchy, and XFCE isn't
light enough for an anemic computer, which is the computer a lot of
Windows users have available to dabble with Linux.
> Once they get their footing then they can go and try
>more esoteric things as they get comfortable. Having them try to use
>straight openbox with a custom configuration is NOT the right advice
>for a new person.
Please remember, I recommended LXDE and LXQt. My point of Openbox was
to say that if you want an interface that completely stays out of your
way the way you say Gnome3 does, my interface does that.
>
>Lastly, yes I did mean "integrated" and not "dependent" or
>"entangled".
No matter what you *meant*, "integrated" implies entangled.
>GNOME 3/4 in no way, shape, or form, REQUIRES systemd.
>You don't have to look far to prove this as it runs on FreeBSD, which
>is systemd-free. And no you don't have to jump through hoops to get it
>working, you install it and enable a couple services and poof it works
>just as well as on any other Linux system. GNOME also a first-class
>desktop environment on Void.
Well, the Gentoo/Funtoo people sure had to jump through hoops to get
Gnome working with OpenRC, but yeah, you're right, as shown at
https://distrowatch.com/search.php?ostype=All&category=All&origin=All&basedon=All¬basedon=None&desktop=GNOME&architecture=All&package=All&rolling=All&isosize=All&netinstall=All&language=All&defaultinit=Not+systemd&status=Active#simple
Therefore, I can recommend Void to somebody who wants Gnome.
SteveT
Steve Litt
Summer 2022 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/thrive.htm
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