RE: NVMe: was Building a Linux Computer?

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Author: Carruth, Rusty
Date:  
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: RE: NVMe: was Building a Linux Computer?
Well, but it wasn't (as far as I could tell) wearing out the media.

But, since they're cheap, it might be interesting if someone tried that and let us know how it goes...

(and I should mention we have the same problem with using them as FreeDOS boot (and thus C:). We write some data there, but nothing like using it for swap ;-)

-----Original Message-----
From: PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-bounces@lists.phxlinux.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cluff
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 8:52 AM
To:
Subject: Re: NVMe: was Building a Linux Computer?

For boot I would think they would work for darn near forever since they
will be getting little in the way of writes.  For / on the other hand,
especially if you put some home and tmp directories on them, there are
enough writes to kill them quickly.

Brian Cluff

On 05/29/2018 08:37 AM, Carruth, Rusty wrote:
> BEWARE!  Some vendors will not support using their USB sticks as boot drives!
>
>
> For example, Kingston DataTraveller sticks are EXPLICITLY NOT SUPPORTED (that is to say, warranty is voided) if you use them as a boot drive!!!!!  (I know because I asked them)
>
> I've got about 20 of the Kingston stick  that ended up dying after being used as / - YMMV if you ONLY use it for /boot.  Now, if you reformat them they will work for a while, then die again, at least when used this way.
>
> NOT recommended as /  MIGHT work as /boot.
>
> I think I've got a few cruzers that failed also, but I'd have to look.
>
> Rusty
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PLUG-discuss [mailto:plug-discuss-bounces@lists.phxlinux.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cluff
> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2018 12:16 AM
> To: 
> Subject: Re: NVMe: was Building a Linux Computer?
>
> I was thinking about one of those super low profile usb flash drives like:
> https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Cruzer-Low-Profile-Drive-SDCZ33-016G-B35/dp/B005FYNSZA
> That is small enough that it won't get bumped and broken easily and you
> would have to go out of your way to pull it out of the system since
> there isn't much to grab hold of.
>
> As for speed, the amount of data that is coming off of the USB drive is
> minimal, so even if it was a little slow it wouldn't really slow down
> the boot process much.
> Besides, who cares about the boot time.  The real bonus will be programs
> starting instantly once you are up and running on and NVMe.
>
> Brian Cluff
>
> On 05/25/2018 10:04 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
>> Knowing my luck I'd lose that USB drive (I assume you mean a thumb
>> drive, not a USB connected spinner). Am I correct that /boot on the
>> thumb drive would slow the boot process, but everything after early
>> boot would take place at NVMe speed? I'm not particularly choosy about
>> boot speed. Go make a cup of tea.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> SteveT
>>
>> On Fri, 25 May 2018 12:57:45 -0700
>> Brian Cluff <> wrote:
>>
>>> You can always get a physically very small USB drive and put /boot
>>> and the boot block on that.  Then everything else can go on the NVMe.
>>>
>>> Brian Cluff
>>>
>>> On 05/25/2018 12:17 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
>>>> Maybe you can get a rip-roaring machine, but how so if that post
>>>> 2005 computer can't boot of NVMe? What do you do, take the UEFI
>>>> info and the /boot off another drive, and use the NVMe for / ? Or
>>>> do you boot off another drive, and then carve up the (assumedly
>>>> small) NVMe into /usr, /lib, /run ? Life gets a lot more
>>>> complicated if the machine can't boot the NVMe.
>>>>
>>>> SteveT
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 23 May 2018 01:16:21 -0700
>>>> Eric Oyen <> wrote:
>>>>    
>>>>> well, the beauty about the "add-in" cards is that you can use any
>>>>> PCI-e slot on just about any desktop that is newer than vintage
>>>>> 2005. YYou will end up with a rip-roaring fast machine. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> -eric
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 22, 2018, at 2:43 PM, Carruth, Rusty wrote:
>>>>>    
>>>>>> Oohh!  Oohh!! Something I can answer :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1 - yes and no.  Yes, you can replace, but no, you (almost
>>>>>> certainly) need to get a PCIe card which converts PCIe on the
>>>>>> motherboard to NVMe on the ssd.  We have one of those at work, not
>>>>>> too expensive as I recall.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2 - You should be able to.  Don't know if that's implemented or
>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3 - /dev/nvme0n1 as an example.  So, for SATA, its /dev/sd<x>  for
>>>>>> nvme, you get a /dev/nvme0 and then you get /dev/nvme0n1 for the
>>>>>> actual drive, as I remember.  I don't remember what the partitions
>>>>>> turn up as, but I THINK they were /dev/nvme0n1p1 or something like
>>>>>> that.  A second NVMe drive would be /dev/nvme0n2 I think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4 - it should.  Now, you MIGHT need some updated stuff, for
>>>>>> example smartctl  may or may not work with NVMe on your distro.
>>>>>> And you'll probably need to download the nvme tool that gives you
>>>>>> control sort of like hdparm.  Using an 'old' distribution might
>>>>>> be a problem (for some value of 'old')
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: PLUG-discuss
>>>>>> [mailto:plug-discuss-bounces@lists.phxlinux.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Steve Litt Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 2:30 PM To:
>>>>>>  Subject: NVMe: was Building a
>>>>>> Linux Computer?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 22 May 2018 13:57:29 -0700
>>>>>> Brian Cluff <> wrote:
>>>>>>        
>>>>>>> For me, I would get a system that can use a NVMe.  They are about
>>>>>>> the same price as an SSD, but make and SSD look extremely slow.
>>>>>> This is the first I've heard of NVMe. I just read
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NVM_Express , and now have some
>>>>>> questions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) Can I replace the spinning platter 2.5" hard disk in my 5 year
>>>>>> old laptop with an NVMe device? My research tells me an NVMe must
>>>>>> plug into a PCIe slot rather than a SATA slot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) Do you fstrim NVMe-hosted partitions the same way you do for
>>>>>> SSD?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) When you install an NVMe card in a PCIe slot, what device name
>>>>>> shows up? Is it sd-whatever, or something else?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4) If my desktop has a free PCIe slot, does that mean I can plug
>>>>>> in an NVIe drive and use it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SteveT
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve Litt
>>>>>> June 2018 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
>>>>>> http://www.troubleshooters.com/28
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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