I think this discussion has gotten a bit out of hand. Sure the immigration
laws are bad and not enforced. I've heard some ppl says they are too
strict and it takes years to get citizenship. Though I've personally heard
from people that immigrated, took the time to become a citizen complain
just like Americans do. First thing though is we gotta fix the education
system. Our K-12 system is worse than most countries, our college systems
for the most part seem to be great. Real weird actually how that works.
But it would make sense to build from the ground up our education to the
point that businesses wouldn't think it's best to outsource. My current
employer just merged with a another health insurance that employees mostly
people from Offsource. Allot of IBM stuff which I will be glad when that
leaves for the most part. But most of the ppl I talk to all day from that
company are foreigners that are contract. They will loose their jobs
because of the merge.
So going back to a couple ppl's point in this thread. There aren't enough
qualified American workers like in the past. I was watching a youtube and
saw a great arguement about schools these days, link is
https://youtu.be/dqTTojTija8. Anyways so if you want to argue that Indians
and others are creating shops fine just remember you stated that they are
coming in with Masters and Phds. That doesn't necessarily make them a
better makes them a better candidate just makes them look smarter.
However, as I've said and some others have pointed out those people with
degrees and other things are no more smarter than someone with a high
school degree. I didn't really learn networking on system admin until my
first job and being a part of this and the Ubuntu group. So schools need
to first get better at teaching for life not tests which is what happens.
Teachers should be paid more because well a student can become a doctor but
more than likely they had a great teacher. Our society doesn't give enough
respect to teachers like it should.
The living wages I'm on the fence because of what I already said. On the
one hard a happy workers is more progressive, they can excel themselves,
they have met their basic needs. However, on the other hand if those
workers aren't preforming well and they are being lazy which is not
uncommon no matter where you come from why should they get paid a living
wage. All in all Americans from the youngest age should be taught to work
hard for what they earn. I know from my fathers time he had to work hard
for his life. Sure he went into the military and I didn't but that doesn't
mean that I don't work hard for what I earn. Nor will I openly complain
about my low wage either. But I've more or less have satisfied my basic
needs and continue to grow my own education. I'm working to get a Red Hat
cert for whatever good it will do me. I'm planning to move out of the
Phoenix area because my everything is customer support here. Though that
make the Phoenix area sound like India somehow.
There are always good and bad things about today. But the real issue here
is are you going to sit back and complain or are going to do something
about it. Me being single decide moving somewhere else is a good thing.
For people with kids, teaching them the value of hard work, being a role
model, and helping them learn is a good thing. So just depends on where
you are at in life. Our President wither the one right now or the other
one coming in can't do anything about jobs. Influence them yes but nothing
about jobs themselves. Though that goes back to they need to not only
fix/update the now immigration laws but also enforce them.
Sincerely.
minimum-wage millennium
On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 7:25 PM, David Schwartz <
newsletters@thetoolwiz.com>
wrote:
> There’s a misnomer that says H-1B visas somehow hurt said visa holders.
>
> That is, for the most part, totally untrue.
>
> And just for the record, the people who get H-1B visas all are pretty much
> required to have Master’s and PhD degrees. These are distinctly different
> jobs and workers than what we hear about regarding most “illegals” and
> folks who come here to wash dishes and clean rooms at hotels.
>
> Companies like Intel, Facebook, Amazon, Intuit, etc., all budget about
> $50k to prosecute an H-1B visa for their new-hires who need one.
>
> They give them full-time permanent jobs with a 6-10 year GUARANTEED JOB —
> until their green card issues.
>
> They pay them competitive salaries in their field with full benefits and
> retirement plans, as well as generous “golden handcuffs". And since about
> 98% of them have Master’s and PhD’s, they tend to be paid MORE than their
> American counterparts who only have BS or Associate degrees.
>
> There’s another group of foreign H-1B workers who are probably more
> familiar to us who do contract gigs.
>
> These are folks working for job shops set up by foreigners to help funnel
> their buddies into America.
>
> Here are some FACTS for you:
>
> If you’re a foreigner, say from India, you can get a multi-year business
> visa + work permit, with multiple-rentry privleges almost INSTANTLY — all
> you have to do is deposit $250k in a domestic US “business” bank account,
> show them a simple business plan, and promise to hire a dozen people
> locally. That’s it. There’s no line. There’s no long wait. There’s nothing
> in your way.
>
> BTW, this is just a part of virtually every immigration program in every
> country in the world. For instance, if you want to move to Prague, in the
> Czech Republic, it costs $25k for the same kind of thing, and you have to
> promise to hire four local people. (Well, that’s what it cost when I
> checked a few years ago. It may have gone up.)
>
> Indians are a very industrius people, and this is a no-brainer for them.
> They’ll get a dozen or so families together to pony up the $250k for
> someone in their clan to start such a business in America. Before long,
> these guys are beating the bushes securing contracts for big companies and
> governments at competitive rates, and putting out job reqs. When someone
> contacts you and says the client doesn’t want to pay more than $21 to $23
> per hour for a job they say requires 10+ years of experience and a MS or
> PhD, this is how they justify that they’re unable to hire “qualified
> American workers”. So they fill the jobs with their buddies. Imagine that.
>
> I don’t know what they’re actually paying their workers, but what these
> people are getting is an opportunity to move to America and get a green
> card at no expense to themselves. Many of them aren’t even very qualified
> for the work!
>
> I’ve heard stories (anecdotal, to be sure) that some of these contractors
> will supply a half-dozen bodies to a company, and those people will sit
> there all day long “looking busy”, then come home to a house where there
> are a couple of highly-skilled wokers who work all night, somtimes with
> help from a team back in India, and do the work that these people were
> supposedly doing. It’s all ready to go the next morning.
>
> Please tell me how these people are “getting screwed” or even “harmed” in
> the game their playing?
>
> This is a game that a lot of Asians have become very proficient at doing,
> thanks to 1706 and our broken immigration system.
>
> Do you think they want to see the laws changed? HELL NO! They’re quite
> happy that all anybody ever discusses about our immigration laws focuses on
> Mexico and people working for below minimum-wage.
>
> I don’t know what these folks pay their people, but they set up housing
> for them and pile them into places under conditions that most Americans
> would not tolerate. What people don’t realize is that for most of these
> folks, they’re living conditions HERE IN AMERICA are FAR BETTER than what
> they experienced back home! YOU might not like it, but THEY ARE LOVING
> IT!!!!
>
> It’s a form of modern-day slavery. The companies are billing these people
> out at $200-$300 per hour, and using that cashflow to not just support
> these people for the several years needed for them to get their green
> cards, but a lot is sent back to their families as well.
>
> We Americans cannot possibly relate to what they’re doing, why, or how it
> is for them. But for most, their lives are MUCH BETTER OFF.
>
> So, hey, please continue distracting people from reality and making noise
> about people coming across our border with Mexico to take jobs for a few
> bucks an hour, and arguing that “we don’t need to fix our immigration laws,
> but enforce the laws we already have.”
>
> In the high-tech industry from which people on this list earn a living,
> none of us are impacted by people from south of our border. We do not work
> in that world. They do not compete with us for jobs.
>
> Rather, we are impacted by Asians gaming our immigration system and using
> 1706 and H-1B visas to funnel people over here who DO take jobs from us.
> And large high-tech employers who find it more expedient to pay the
> ridiculous costs needed to bring H-1B candidates here rather than to pay to
> retrain us for the jobs they claim they cannot fill with “qualified
> American workers”.
>
> They do not WANT us working for them! They do not NEED us working for them!
>
> I saw a graphic from a study done earlier thsi year that said people in
> the software industry over 50 yo are one-half as likely to become employed
> ever again in their field of expertise as people under 50. The most common
> jobs we greybeards get are at or slightly above the minimum-wage, like
> greeters at Walmart, bus drivers, cabbies, crossing guards, and so forth.
>
> This is a “societal pressure” that affects everybody equally. Sure, you
> can spend time studying this and that, and if you’ve got some connections,
> you might be able to score yourself a nice gig. I’m in Delaware at the
> moment on a ~3-mo contract. It’s with the same folks who hired me last year
> for a 5-week contract. They knew me, they liked me, and that’s that. It
> hasn’t been without its challenges, but at this point in my life (at 60),
> there just aren’t a lot of options that come along. It might even lead to a
> full-time position with the State. Who knows.
>
> Interestingly, well over half of the employees I see walking around the
> campus are all … Asians.
>
> And the average age of people I see here is clearly in the 40+ range. It’s
> actually kinda nice. :-)
>
> Why is this? Because Americans don’t like taking lower-paying government
> jobs. All of the newbies thay have here are recent college grads from India
> who already have a green card or citizenship.
>
> (Govt agencies do not sponsor H-1B candidates. They don’t even pay
> relocation.)
>
> -David “The Tool Wiz” Schwartz
>
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Stephen Melheim
602-400-7707
SMelheim85@gmail.com
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