On 2015-07-24 11:23, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 05:06:59 -0700
> Keith Smith <techlists@phpcoderusa.com> wrote:
>
>
>> If you are going to take out a state or federal exchange policy you
>> can figure on high rates and high deductibles. Last year the
>> affordable care act was going to cost my wife and I $750 a month with
>> a $6,200 annual deductible per person. It is my understanding that
>> those rates may have gone up as much as 40% this year. I am priced
>> out of the market. And I had to pay a fine this year....
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>
> Yes.
>
> You and I have very different ideas of "high". As the head of a
> household of five people, each with preexisting conditions (and our
> whole family probably all live to 85 without much medical intervention,
> but that's for another day), I was paying almost $3000/month for a
> family policy of $10K deductible for the family. In almost every year
> (except the year I had a hernia sewed up), we never got past the
> deductible, so the $36K I gave the insurance company was free and clear
> to them. My alternative was to risk losing the house if I got run over
> on a bicycle ride.
>
You could go bankrupt and buy a house cash in 50 months if you were
buying a $150,000 house. That is 4 years and 2 months.
It is my understanding they cannot take your house because of the
Arizona homestead law. If you go Bankrupt they cannot take the tools of
your trade and must leave you with one form of entertainment and one
car.
I would suggest talking with an Attorney.
Several days in the hospital might cost $25,000 retail and you might get
them to give you a cash discount especially if you use a lawyer to
negotiate. Say you do end up with $40,000 in medical debt. You cut
that in half and pay your lawyer $2000 and you are still way ahead.
If you go 10 years without any major medical incidence you would save
$360,000. You are well on your way to becoming self insured.
Also they cannot take your retirement account. Stuff as much of that in
your IRA and other retirement accounts and you hedge your bet.
I believe everyone should pay their debts. I also believe our
government AND big business is at fault here. I think health care costs
are driven by crony capitalism. So that begs the question - what do I
really owe? I am along for the ride. I did not create this mess and I
will do everything in my power to protect myself under the law. The
Good Book says "give to caesar what is caesar's". What is rightfully
caesar's?
In 1980 I went to the ER and received 3 stitches. Cost was $35.00. I
was making $4.70 an hour. I paid cash and did not feel it at all. Today
I am told the cost would be $5,000 - $10,000 in the ER. At urgent care
that cost might be $250 - $500.
What is driving this cost? It is uninsured people using the ER as their
primary care physician. Who are those uninsured people? ObamaCare did
not fix that issue. Remember Obama saying a family of 4 would save
$2500 a year on insurance with ObamaCare? Did that happen - no.
Medical premiums are sky-rocketing. Some think this is by design.
Let's talk ObamaCare - I was not for socialized medicine. The
government does a poor job at most things. Add to that the
redistribution built into the system and I do not want to participate.
Other get subsidized while I am required to pay full rate. So I pay
taxes that pay for the Medicare expansion and ObamaCare and I pay full
rate for insurance. Nice job!! Nice if you are on the receiving end.
Also note the AZ Medicare expansion was done with the hospitals and
other medical organizations. This was not a clean bill. This is what I
mean by crony capitalism - Government expanding in favor of the special
interest groups, not the people.
No one has ever given me anything. I pulled myself up by my bootstraps
and made the best of things. I paid my way and now my government wants
to take my hard earned money and give it to others.
The AZ Medicare expansion and ObamaCare might help some, however it
hurts a lot of people. My U.S. Congressman's staff tell me that lots of
people are in my position of not being able to afford insurance while
subsidising others.
At some point we have to say enough is enough. An unjust law is no law
at all. We should require our elected officials to read every bill
before they pass it and we should hold them accountable. We are not.
We as a society are too busy watching dancing with the stars and
desperate housewives. We need to turn off the TV and spend some time
attending to the business of our country.
> I would have skipped merrily down the street to insure myself and my
> wife for $750.
>
> LOL, I had to give back all my Obamacare tax credits and *still* saved
> over $1100/month on substantially the same policy.
>
> The unforseen problem with Obamacare is the supreme court decision that
> gave states the right to opt out of the Medicaid Expansion. States that
> opted out created a huge hole consisting of working Americans who made
> too much for traditional Medicaid, but who would have had to eat beans
> every night and drive 20 year old cars to afford the insurance
> premiums. Florida, where I live, is such a state, and I know people who
> fall into that hole. I see from
> http://familiesusa.org/product/50-state-look-medicaid-expansion that
> Arizona is a Medicaid Expansion state.
>
> I have no idea how much money you make. If you and your wife really
> have to pay $750/month in spite of the available tax credits, you're
> making enough money that it's not a matter of affordability, it's a
> matter of priorities. That works well if you have few assets, but if
> you have a house and a college fund for the kids, one hit and run
> driver could cause you to completely lose those with a week's hospital
> stay. You could be in debt for years.
>
> Next open enrollment period, I'd suggest you call the Marketplace and
> really ask what's going on. Fill out the app with your income, etc, and
> find out how much tax credit you'll get. *Do not* rely on street
> gossip: There are a lot of people spouting a lot of nonsense about
> Obamacare, in order to hone their political credentials.
>
> One more piece of advice if you do go through the marketplace: Don't
> make the mistake I made last year: I applied the tax credits to the
> ($1850/month) premiums to get them down to about $900. Well, I had a
> good year last year, made too much money, and had to give back every
> cent of the credits when I filled out my taxes. $20K all at once.
> Instead of doing what I did, pay your whole premium out of pocket, and
> collect your tax credit at tax time. That way any surprises you get
> will be pleasant ones.
>
And you hope the Government does not stop giving tax refunds. In 2009
several states did not issue refunds, I think they did an IOU or carried
the taxes to the next year.
> The bottom line is this: Being a freelancer is now a whole lot less
> worrysome for a person who's older or whose health measurements aren't
> pristine, than freelancing was before 1/1/2014. Take it from me: I've
> been freelancing since 1984, and my two worst problems were health
> insurance and section 1706 of the 1986 tax law.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> July 2015 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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--
Keith Smith
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