Am 30. Nov, 2014 schwätzte Lisa Kachold so:
moin moin Lisa,
I tired of convincing others in PLUG to keep including you. I tired of
doing damage control as you pissed off various groups of people and got
yourself uninvited to multiple locations. I tired of needing to mend
relationships such that PLUG can still work with those same groups.
Over the years I have received more complaints about you than everyone
else togeter. Far more than any other person, you have specifically been
cited as the reason why someone has chosen to no longer participate in
PLUG.
Essentially, I stopped saying to include you despite requests to ask you
to leave. The overwhelming opinion was to let you go your own way.
Your hackfests have not participated with PLUG for years. PLUG membership
has asked me that PLUG no longer participate with you or the hackfests. I
have finally acquiesced.
As to your fascination to my wedding ring, I have no idea what you're
talking about. My private life is private and should stay that way.
You will be moderated on the PLUG mailing lists. You can continue
spreading your distortion field elsewhere, but PLUG does not need to
provide you with resources to continue trolling PLUG.
As always, we welcome on topic, helpful posts.
ciao,
der.hans
> Walter,
>
> Thanks for chiming in. I, for the most part agree with you.
>
> If you read my context, I said "others have contacted me with a long
> laundry list" "including sexual harassment" (which was the term used by the
> individual contacting me). While an assumption that the women in PLUG are
> only interested to interact (with Hans) for the purposes of personal
> intimacy (as evidenced by the repeated action of calling attention to a
> wedding ring to multiple women) is not in it's definition "sexual
> harassment", it might be considered to be rude or inappropriate and and
> indication "gender bias" in PLUG roles. I clearly said I had "stayed out
> of the controversy, if you can read context?
>
> And Walter, I referenced the experience with limits to communication with
> Hans because he said I had "been acting as a seperate group for years". It
> is contextually appropriate to bring up such unprofessional behavior
> related to communication with PLUG decision makers. This arbitrary
> decision was made by Hans alone [like everything in PLUG]).
>
> In truth the whole thing most probably boils down to scheduling and
> limitations to the PLUG website CMS for repeated events or events that
> occur concurrently.
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Walter Mack <wmack@componentsw.com> wrote:
>
>> Lisa,
>>
>> to me, being someone who has a good relationship with PLUG and Hans, I
>> feel that your post is offensive, not just to Hans, but to everyone who
>> considers PLUG to be a positive influence for the greater metro Phoenix
>> area.
>>
>> Can the functioning of PLUG be improved? Of course, like almost
>> everything. I for my part appreciate the work PLUG (and by extension Hans)
>> is doing, and given the demands of our individual lives, I believe it is
>> commendable!
>>
>> Regarding your claims of sexual harassment, you might want to consider its
>> definition (which, as you might now, governs the workplace). I found this
>> link
>> http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm From the information
>> I have, it seems unlikely that what you describe would qualify for sexual
>> harassment!
>>
>> I think your post abundantly shows your displeasure with the way things
>> are, and you don't have to repeat it any more. If you have such a low
>> opinion of matters relating to PLUG, you always have the options to either
>> branch out on your own, or find an organization with which you can have a
>> better relationship.
>>
>> I wish you lots of success with the hackfest and other efforts you
>> undertake, and I hope you are sufficiently motivated by their benefits, and
>> can accept others making decisions about calendar entries that you disagree
>> with.
>>
>> Walter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/30/2014 08:22 AM, Lisa Kachold wrote:
>>
>> Hans/(All),
>>
>> PLUG (aka Hans [since actually no leadership was ever allowed] is going
>> to have to state the rules under which you are "dismissing" via schedule
>> removal a healthy regular popular venue.
>>
>> PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") is going to have to reference when those rules
>> were published and when they were delivered to me.
>>
>> EVERYONE has historically had their own website, because PLUG does not
>> allow:
>>
>> 1) Specific wording in announcements.
>> 2) Submitting additional announcements and extensive innovative content.
>> 3) Presentation postings.
>>
>> Examples of other historic users (in good standing) with their own
>> websites to support their presentations and community endeavors include:
>>
>> Ryan Rix
>> Alan Dayley
>> Joseph Sinclair
>> Brian Cluff
>> Alexander Henry
>>
>> The PLUG (lack of structure and rules/guidelines) consistent with other
>> cities of comparable sizes (specific examples are Seattle, Los Angeles and
>> Portland) has kept the group from becoming all that a LUG can be.
>>
>> Older retired penguins have devoted thousands of hours and dollars each
>> year purchasing their own equipment for community venues like Installfest
>> without anyone in PLUG "leadership" even getting a 501(c)3 rider under
>> another PLUG to allow income tax relief.
>>
>> Here's a long list of past discussions that echo these limitations and
>> issues:
>>
>> http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20100205.085425.dbace92f.en.html
>>
>> http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20130508.020509.d70d1744.en.html
>>
>> http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20090806.163922.37c4d455.en.html
>>
>> http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20101108.063046.7219d889.en.html
>>
>> The ramifications of PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") limiting announcements and
>> venues (like the HackFest) that promote continuing educational schools
>> (other than Mesa Community College [where he has been adjunct teacher]) are
>> obvious.
>>
>> The ramifications of PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") "dropping" a 7 year
>> successful event like the HackFest is HUGE.
>>
>> I have been long contacted by members active for many years who want
>> support to backup recommendations to disband the PLUG (or remove
>> "Presidential dictatorship") with a long laundry list of reasons from
>> sexual harassment (Example: Hans raising his wedding ring clad finger to
>> women as they wait to speak with him about PLUG matters during public
>> community events [which I have experienced twice myself]) to outright
>> misuse of funding ( [tee shirts and donations from local businesses] and
>> PLUG interns/students raising money for sister project ABLEConf) as well as
>> inappropriate steering to classes at Mesa Community College during
>> "OpenSource" community venues.
>>
>> I have stayed out of escalation of those issues to other authorities,
>> but "Silence is DEATH" and a Linux Users Group where membership live in
>> threat of social ostracism and promote via "inner circle relationships" (or
>> make decisions like drop a healthy venue without written rules or warning)
>> is nothing more than a "GANG" and is destined to die.
>>
>> 1) Please show me the rules under which removal of the HackFests from
>> the calendar was made? If there was a scheduling issue, why was I not
>> called or allowed to reschedule? Our security community and active interns
>> have been historically very changeable and this could be easily arranged at
>> DeVry University who also provide a rack at OneNeck.
>>
>> 2) Please show me the rules that state posting a discussion to more than
>> one mailing list with the same content is disallowed? It is not on any of
>> the mailing list phxlinux.org pages?
>>
>> 3) And while we are talking about it, please show me the rules (in any
>> PLUG) that state that we can't have TWO PLUG EVENTS on the same day? Is
>> that because the website php CMS software won't allow it? [/LAUGH]
>>
>> I have a HackFest iPhone and Android app ready (which can be released in
>> the next week) to submit to Google Play and Apple Store. I will happily
>> leave the phxlinux.org and PLUG name out of that code.
>>
>> Thanks for "allowing me" to continue to announce the HackFests on the
>> mailing lists.
>>
>> Happy ThanksGiving
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 1:08 AM, der.hans <PLUGd@lufthans.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Am 29. Nov, 2014 schwätzte Lisa Kachold so:
>>>
>>> moin moin Lisa,
>>>
>>> I was curious as to why you have removed the Hackfests (2nd Saturday of
>>>> every month) afrom the PLUG Calendar?
>>>>
>>>
>>> You've been acting as a seperate group for years. You have your own web
>>> site and mailing list for your group.
>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> You may continue announcing your events on the list, but please stop
>>> cross-posting to multiple lists.
>>>
>>> ciao,
>>>
>>> der.hans
>>>
>>>
>>> Hackfests have been going strong since 2008 and have students from ITT and
>>>> strong support from DeVry where instructors provide extra credit to their
>>>> security students for attendance.
>>>>
>>>> DeVry University provides a rack for PLUG use (providing it is actually
>>>> used in context with student related open source activities) at OneNeck
>>>> which is populated with a VMWare ESXi 5.5 server, OpenVPN server,
>>>> Security
>>>> Onion, Metasploitable and other images for demonstration purposes, all of
>>>> which has been built entirely with community contributed assets and
>>>> intern
>>>> effort. We contribute Kali CD's for lab demonstration use, promotional
>>>> tee
>>>> shirts and shared DefCon videos each year.
>>>>
>>>> We have a large following of local security professionals, with visits
>>>> from
>>>> University of Phoenix, Palo Verde Nuclear, Department of the Army and
>>>> GoDaddy staff.
>>>>
>>>> I have received no notice related to any new requirements or change?
>>>>
>>>> I have posted monthly announcements to the PLUG Announce list since 2008
>>>> and have never been notified of any other PLUG requirements?
>>>>
>>>> Please add this great linux security lab venue back to the PLUG Schedule.
>>>>
>>>> 2nd Saturday of every month 11:00 - 2:00 PM.
>>>> DeVry University
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> # http://www.LuftHans.com/ http://www.PhxLinux.org/
>>> # A Polish friend of mine got an offer for a free account from AOL. The
>>> # login ID was "HELLO" and the passwd "CYMBAL". She says "cymbal" is like
>>> # a Polish word for "sucker". 'Hello sucker', a greeting from AOHell :).
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
--
# http://www.LuftHans.com/ http://www.PhxLinux.org/
# "Do something wonderful, people may imitate it." -- Albert Schweitzer
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