Re: OT: Internet Sales Tax Passes the U.S. Senate

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Author: Bryan O'Neal
Date:  
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: OT: Internet Sales Tax Passes the U.S. Senate
Sales tax is not new - if people respected the use tax laws they would not
have to burden the business. Perhaps personal responsibility is the problem.


On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:33 AM, keith smith <> wrote:

>
> I almost fell out of my chair - "Not the end of the world man - sorry".
> You do not care if business has to spend more and do more to comply. I
> just do not get this mentality. At some point one of these laws is going
> to bite you and then you will understand.
>
> The difference between you and I is I actually work with these issues on a
> daily basis and you makeup some hypothetical example to support your point.
>
> ------------------------
> Keith Smith
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 5/8/13, Bryan O'Neal <>*wrote:
>
>
> From: Bryan O'Neal <>
> Subject: Re: OT: Internet Sales Tax Passes the U.S. Senate
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <>
> Date: Wednesday, May 8, 2013, 10:18 AM
>
>
> Every city (and county for the unincorporated areas) had it's own
> corporation for the project that happened in the locality. Each one was
> treated separately and together as a consolidated entity with each one
> having it's own set of independent investors and
> several intermediate holding companies. Yes we had to deal with more then
> one. We only had two kinds of sales.
> With regards to Amazon, yes they need to do it. And so they are more then
> willing to do it for you as well, for a small fee of course. But talk to
> your accountant you may have better options depending on your type of
> business. Yes you may have to pay more then you collected If
> you collected 8.4% but had to pay 9.2%, guess what you ate 0.8%. Now
> imaging you do $1.5M in sales and you only make an average of 10% per sale
> based on average rate and total costing methods. (this is actually a little
> low for most businesses of that size but hey - the bigger you get the
> smaller the margins become unless you invest in capital leverage, but then
> you could be sunk in the case of a rapid down turn. - it is all a bunch of
> risk sliders and each business is different) So of you 150K profit lets say
> you and your partner each take 25% and use the rest to reinvest. Either
> your annual salaries went 35.7K per year to 35.4K per year OR you invest
> $600 less in your business. I'm sorry - not the end of the world.
>
> Not the end of the world man - sorry, it's not. Unless of course you
> insist on going alone and not discussing it with any experts who could
> help. Then your screwed.
>
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 5:16 AM, JD Austin <<http://mc/compose?to=jd@twingeckos.com>
> > wrote:
>
> I'm calling a little BS on your over simplification Bryan; you certainly
> DID NOT have to deal with more than one one state's sales tax rules unless
> you had a physical presence there. There are even different rates for
> different kind of sales; it is not a simple thing at all and is
> disingenuous to pretend it is. Just having to deal with periodic tax
> updates alone on a national level is a burden unless you're a huge company
> like Amazon. Imagine having to pay More than you collected because it
> wasn't up to date. How would you send that money to each state? Would a
> business need a bank account for each State like they do for just a single
> one? It adds a lot business overhead that foreign competition selling
> online won't have and it's second and third order effects will drive down
> wages, increase prices, and frankly shut down a lot of business that has
> a low margin of profit. It is totally an American dream killer. Those
> same companies will be subject to other federal legislation that vastly
> increases business overhead too.
> Also 10M a month is a lot different than 1M a year. Sales! = profit; this
> will finally be the big push that causes people with no real skills to lose
> their jobs to robots or to Foreign countries.
> JD
> On May 7, 2013 11:44 PM, "Bryan O'Neal" <
> <http://mc/compose?to=Bryan.ONeal@theonealandassociates.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Ken. If you are not recording your sales you are already screwed. If you
> are then your accountant will have the software required to do your sales
> tax. If you are doing over a million in internet sales but can not afford a
> few K for an accountant you are also screwed. If you
> whole business will collapse because of a new $1500 fee, you should not be
> in this business I was an accountant for a company that did 10mill in
> sales every month and 3 of us took care of everything including the
> consolidated statements on several dozen subsidiaries and investor payouts
> not to mention the thousands of vendor invoices we processed every month.
> The only thing we farmed out was payroll and you know what - it is not that
> bad.It is not going to be hard once it becomes common. I
>
> Regarding xen to quick books - again - weekend project for a friend who
> did far less then you apparently do. But I question what accounting
> software you do use if this is all way to much for you and you fear
> your current provider would not support you. Particularly when it is really
> not that big of a deal. Sure I would not write one from scratch for free -
> that is what peachtree, timberline, intuit, even freaking xTuple are for
> (the have a staff of professionals paid to make things easy for you).
> Don't freak out, don't fire people, don't close your doors, just be aware
> that you will need to talk to your accountant. And again, if you do over a
> mill in sales and you don't have one - god help you.
>
> And no if your margins are low you may not make much at all off of a mill
> in sales. The value is reasonable to separate a hobby from a business And
> if you are in business you should be capable of having a part
> time accountant process your orders through their software and spit you out
> a report once a week.
> But I will also say if you are just scraping by, and you are not able to
> grow your unit sales or decrease your costs significantly year after year,
> then you probably should be looking for another job anyway because stuff
> like this happens. You get a spike in bad customers, a rash of lost items
> in the mail, a new set of international tariffs or additional customs
> procedures, or - some one else who is doing it better then you. That is the
> nature of business.
>
>
> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 8:43 PM, keith smith <<http://mc/compose?to=klsmith2020@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
>
> This is interesting. Most think a mill a year in sales is a lot. It
> really is not. Not from my experience. If you are doing a mill a year
> online you probably have a lot of overhead.
>
> You talk about doing the reporting on line. Who is going to do it and how
> is going to ensure the right info is reported? Someone will work more or
> an additional person will be required.
>
> And I do not think we would " pipe xen cart on LAMP into quick books on
> windows real time" The correct amount of sales tax must be figure during
> the sale based on local.
>
> I work with these issues on a daily basis. it is going to be a nightmare.
>
>
> ------------------------
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Tue, 5/7/13, Bryan O'Neal <>*wrote:
>
>
> From: Bryan O'Neal <>
> Subject: Re: OT: Internet Sales Tax Passes the U.S. Senate
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <<http://mc/compose?to=plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org>
> >
> Date: Tuesday, May 7, 2013, 6:31 PM
>
>
> Data exchange can be done - If I can pipe xen cart on LAMP into quick
> books on windows real time after a weekend of playing around I am sure some
> one like intuit will have way to cover you. That said - it will take a year
> or two for the dust to settle and it will cost people to comply. But if you
> sell $1M/year and you can not afford a $1500 bump in expenses I would say
> your margins are too thin to survive. As far as remittance most states
> allow you to do the monthly remittance online. I wrote a simple script for
> the sate of AZ so again, I think biger software companies can handle making
> it very simple for you. And again, if you are doing a mill in sales and you
> are not using some form of software that has active development you will
> have problems.
> What I am trying to say is the concept is not as daunting as it may sound.
> The problem is not in the concept, however the execution will be very
> painful. And this will cause a lot of problems for a lot of people.
>
>
> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 6:19 PM, keith smith <<http://mc/compose?to=klsmith2020@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
>
> It will not be as simple as tying one software package into another. What
> if the provided software runs on Win8 and your cart is running on a LAMP
> server?
>
> ------------------------
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Tue, 5/7/13, Bryan O'Neal <>*wrote:
>
>
> From: Bryan O'Neal <>
>
> Subject: Re: OT: Internet Sales Tax Passes the U.S. Senate
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <<http://mc/compose?to=plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org>
> >
> Date: Tuesday, May 7, 2013, 6:11 PM
>
>
> The real problem is internal US internet sales will be less competitive.
> The regulations will be difficult at first but within a few years they
> will just tie the sales software into the tax software and it will be easy
> to calculate and deal with in real time with very little additional cost.
> The solution to competition is either use of an import tax or forcing
> compliance on any one who sells inside the us. And our sales to the outside
> will not be effected because other countries are not doing this... So
> purchasing from the US if you happen to be in some non US company looks
> just the same. In all truth... Sales tax is more progressive then income
> tax, so.... I am not sure I have an issue with it more then the
> predefined statement that TAXES ARE TOO DAM HIGH!
>
>
> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Jason Poulter <<http://mc/compose?to=polt@snaptek.com>
> > wrote:
>
> It will just force people to buy things from sites and countries where
> they don't collect taxes , so really justs hurt the economy more losing out
> on sales that make economy better
>
>
> Eric Cope < <http://mc/compose?to=eric.cope@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
>
> http://blog2.easydns.org/2013/05/07/go-ahead-pass-the-internet-tax-your-foreign-competitors-thank-you-in-advance/
>
>
> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Stephen <<http://mc/compose?to=cryptworks@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> I also envision allot of quote building instead of online direct purchase.
> On May 7, 2013 1:43 PM, "keith smith" <<http://mc/compose?to=klsmith2020@yahoo.com>>
> wrote:
>
>
> Great idea. Phone orders only, placed through a local terminal not the
> website. Excellent!!
>
>
>
> ------------------------
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Tue, 5/7/13, James Finstrom <<http://mc/compose?to=jfinstrom@rhinoequipment.com>
> >* wrote:
>
>
> From: James Finstrom <<http://mc/compose?to=jfinstrom@rhinoequipment.com>
> >
> Subject: Re: OT: Internet Sales Tax Passes the U.S. Senate
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <<http://mc/compose?to=plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org>
> >
> Date: Tuesday, May 7, 2013, 10:11 AM
>
> I predict "call to order" then the sale is not an "internet sale".
>
> Much like companies are cutting employee hours to avoid obamacare people
> will find a way to avoid this.
>
> James Finstrom
>
>
>
> ಠ_ಠ **
>
>
> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 9:19 AM, JD Austin <<http://mc/compose?to=jd@twingeckos.com>
> > wrote:
>
> Great.. one more way to KILL small business by making them less
> competitive and increasing their overhead. Companies will just adapt to
> this BS (and regular employees will pay for it).. getting close to
> 1M/year... time to SPLIT THE COMPANY.
>
> -- JD Austin
> Twin Geckos Technology Services LLC
> http://www.twingeckos.com
> Voice: 480.269.4335 (480 2MY Geek)
> <http://mc/compose?to=jd@twingeckos.com>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> AZTelcom Solutions
> <http://mc/compose?to=jd.austin@aztelcom.com>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> The Open Tech Guy
> http://www.opentechguy.com
> <http://mc/compose?to=jd@opentechguy.com>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Xorcom USA
> Technical Support
> <http://mc/compose?to=jd.austin@xorcom.com>
>
>
> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Lisa Kachold <<http://mc/compose?to=lisakachold@obnosis.com>
> > wrote:
>
> Keith:
>
> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 8:48 AM, keith smith <<http://mc/compose?to=klsmith2020@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
>
> The U.S. Senate passed the Internet Sales Tax Bill. Jeff Flake's office
> says he voted against it and John McCain's office said he voted FOR it.
>
> It is being reported there in some 9,600 taxing authorities in the U.S.
> Add to that 560 or so Indian tribe taxing authorities. That is over 10,000
> taxing authorities. Yikes!! Any company with 1 million in sales will be
> required to comply. I can tell you that a company that has 1 million in
> sales is not a big company. That online retailer might consist of 2 or 3
> employees with some additional help from a number of consultants and
> potentially a fulfillment center.
>
> From first hand experience, I would say this law, if passed by the U.S.
> House, will cause a bunch of small online retailers to either go out of
> business or reduce sales through raising prices or some other method.
>
> This may very well play out like ObamaCare where companies are reducing
> the hours of their employees so they have less than 50 full-time
> employees. In other words we will experience the unintended consequences
> of these laws.
>
> These polices effect each of us.
>
>
> Yikes, yes! And that will provide the revenue to expand Internet
> government regulation and compliance.
>
> Sadly, it had to happen.
>
>
> ------------------------
> Keith Smith
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