Sales tax is not new - if people respected the use tax laws they would not have to burden the business. Perhaps personal responsibility is the problem. On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:33 AM, keith smith wrote: > > I almost fell out of my chair - "Not the end of the world man - sorry". > You do not care if business has to spend more and do more to comply. I > just do not get this mentality. At some point one of these laws is going > to bite you and then you will understand. > > The difference between you and I is I actually work with these issues on a > daily basis and you makeup some hypothetical example to support your point. > > ------------------------ > Keith Smith > > > --- On *Wed, 5/8/13, Bryan O'Neal *wrote: > > > From: Bryan O'Neal > Subject: Re: OT: Internet Sales Tax Passes the U.S. Senate > To: "Main PLUG discussion list" > Date: Wednesday, May 8, 2013, 10:18 AM > > > Every city (and county for the unincorporated areas) had it's own > corporation for the project that happened in the locality. Each one was > treated separately and together as a consolidated entity with each one > having it's own set of independent investors and > several intermediate holding companies. Yes we had to deal with more then > one. We only had two kinds of sales. > With regards to Amazon, yes they need to do it. And so they are more then > willing to do it for you as well, for a small fee of course. But talk to > your accountant you may have better options depending on your type of > business. Yes you may have to pay more then you collected If > you collected 8.4% but had to pay 9.2%, guess what you ate 0.8%. Now > imaging you do $1.5M in sales and you only make an average of 10% per sale > based on average rate and total costing methods. (this is actually a little > low for most businesses of that size but hey - the bigger you get the > smaller the margins become unless you invest in capital leverage, but then > you could be sunk in the case of a rapid down turn. - it is all a bunch of > risk sliders and each business is different) So of you 150K profit lets say > you and your partner each take 25% and use the rest to reinvest. Either > your annual salaries went 35.7K per year to 35.4K per year OR you invest > $600 less in your business. I'm sorry - not the end of the world. > > Not the end of the world man - sorry, it's not. Unless of course you > insist on going alone and not discussing it with any experts who could > help. Then your screwed. > > > On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 5:16 AM, JD Austin > > wrote: > > I'm calling a little BS on your over simplification Bryan; you certainly > DID NOT have to deal with more than one one state's sales tax rules unless > you had a physical presence there. There are even different rates for > different kind of sales; it is not a simple thing at all and is > disingenuous to pretend it is. Just having to deal with periodic tax > updates alone on a national level is a burden unless you're a huge company > like Amazon. Imagine having to pay More than you collected because it > wasn't up to date. How would you send that money to each state? Would a > business need a bank account for each State like they do for just a single > one? It adds a lot business overhead that foreign competition selling > online won't have and it's second and third order effects will drive down > wages, increase prices, and frankly shut down a lot of business that has > a low margin of profit. It is totally an American dream killer. Those > same companies will be subject to other federal legislation that vastly > increases business overhead too. > Also 10M a month is a lot different than 1M a year. Sales! = profit; this > will finally be the big push that causes people with no real skills to lose > their jobs to robots or to Foreign countries. > JD > On May 7, 2013 11:44 PM, "Bryan O'Neal" < > Bryan.ONeal@theonealandassociates.com> > wrote: > > Ken. If you are not recording your sales you are already screwed. If you > are then your accountant will have the software required to do your sales > tax. If you are doing over a million in internet sales but can not afford a > few K for an accountant you are also screwed. If you > whole business will collapse because of a new $1500 fee, you should not be > in this business I was an accountant for a company that did 10mill in > sales every month and 3 of us took care of everything including the > consolidated statements on several dozen subsidiaries and investor payouts > not to mention the thousands of vendor invoices we processed every month. > The only thing we farmed out was payroll and you know what - it is not that > bad.It is not going to be hard once it becomes common. I > > Regarding xen to quick books - again - weekend project for a friend who > did far less then you apparently do. But I question what accounting > software you do use if this is all way to much for you and you fear > your current provider would not support you. Particularly when it is really > not that big of a deal. Sure I would not write one from scratch for free - > that is what peachtree, timberline, intuit, even freaking xTuple are for > (the have a staff of professionals paid to make things easy for you). > Don't freak out, don't fire people, don't close your doors, just be aware > that you will need to talk to your accountant. And again, if you do over a > mill in sales and you don't have one - god help you. > > And no if your margins are low you may not make much at all off of a mill > in sales. The value is reasonable to separate a hobby from a business And > if you are in business you should be capable of having a part > time accountant process your orders through their software and spit you out > a report once a week. > But I will also say if you are just scraping by, and you are not able to > grow your unit sales or decrease your costs significantly year after year, > then you probably should be looking for another job anyway because stuff > like this happens. You get a spike in bad customers, a rash of lost items > in the mail, a new set of international tariffs or additional customs > procedures, or - some one else who is doing it better then you. That is the > nature of business. > > > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 8:43 PM, keith smith > > wrote: > > > This is interesting. Most think a mill a year in sales is a lot. It > really is not. Not from my experience. If you are doing a mill a year > online you probably have a lot of overhead. > > You talk about doing the reporting on line. Who is going to do it and how > is going to ensure the right info is reported? Someone will work more or > an additional person will be required. > > And I do not think we would " pipe xen cart on LAMP into quick books on > windows real time" The correct amount of sales tax must be figure during > the sale based on local. > > I work with these issues on a daily basis. it is going to be a nightmare. > > > ------------------------ > Keith Smith > > --- On *Tue, 5/7/13, Bryan O'Neal *wrote: > > > From: Bryan O'Neal > Subject: Re: OT: Internet Sales Tax Passes the U.S. Senate > To: "Main PLUG discussion list" > > > Date: Tuesday, May 7, 2013, 6:31 PM > > > Data exchange can be done - If I can pipe xen cart on LAMP into quick > books on windows real time after a weekend of playing around I am sure some > one like intuit will have way to cover you. That said - it will take a year > or two for the dust to settle and it will cost people to comply. But if you > sell $1M/year and you can not afford a $1500 bump in expenses I would say > your margins are too thin to survive. As far as remittance most states > allow you to do the monthly remittance online. I wrote a simple script for > the sate of AZ so again, I think biger software companies can handle making > it very simple for you. And again, if you are doing a mill in sales and you > are not using some form of software that has active development you will > have problems. > What I am trying to say is the concept is not as daunting as it may sound. > The problem is not in the concept, however the execution will be very > painful. And this will cause a lot of problems for a lot of people. > > > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 6:19 PM, keith smith > > wrote: > > > It will not be as simple as tying one software package into another. What > if the provided software runs on Win8 and your cart is running on a LAMP > server? > > ------------------------ > Keith Smith > > --- On *Tue, 5/7/13, Bryan O'Neal *wrote: > > > From: Bryan O'Neal > > Subject: Re: OT: Internet Sales Tax Passes the U.S. Senate > To: "Main PLUG discussion list" > > > Date: Tuesday, May 7, 2013, 6:11 PM > > > The real problem is internal US internet sales will be less competitive. > The regulations will be difficult at first but within a few years they > will just tie the sales software into the tax software and it will be easy > to calculate and deal with in real time with very little additional cost. > The solution to competition is either use of an import tax or forcing > compliance on any one who sells inside the us. And our sales to the outside > will not be effected because other countries are not doing this... So > purchasing from the US if you happen to be in some non US company looks > just the same. In all truth... Sales tax is more progressive then income > tax, so.... I am not sure I have an issue with it more then the > predefined statement that TAXES ARE TOO DAM HIGH! > > > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Jason Poulter > > wrote: > > It will just force people to buy things from sites and countries where > they don't collect taxes , so really justs hurt the economy more losing out > on sales that make economy better > > > Eric Cope > > wrote: > > > http://blog2.easydns.org/2013/05/07/go-ahead-pass-the-internet-tax-your-foreign-competitors-thank-you-in-advance/ > > > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Stephen > > wrote: > > I also envision allot of quote building instead of online direct purchase. > On May 7, 2013 1:43 PM, "keith smith" > > wrote: > > > Great idea. Phone orders only, placed through a local terminal not the > website. Excellent!! > > > > ------------------------ > Keith Smith > > --- On *Tue, 5/7/13, James Finstrom > >* wrote: > > > From: James Finstrom > > > Subject: Re: OT: Internet Sales Tax Passes the U.S. Senate > To: "Main PLUG discussion list" > > > Date: Tuesday, May 7, 2013, 10:11 AM > > I predict "call to order" then the sale is not an "internet sale". > > Much like companies are cutting employee hours to avoid obamacare people > will find a way to avoid this. > > James Finstrom > > > > ಠ_ಠ ** > > > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 9:19 AM, JD Austin > > wrote: > > Great.. one more way to KILL small business by making them less > competitive and increasing their overhead. Companies will just adapt to > this BS (and regular employees will pay for it).. getting close to > 1M/year... time to SPLIT THE COMPANY. > > -- JD Austin > Twin Geckos Technology Services LLC > http://www.twingeckos.com > Voice: 480.269.4335 (480 2MY Geek) > jd@twingeckos.com > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > AZTelcom Solutions > jd.austin@aztelcom.com > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > The Open Tech Guy > http://www.opentechguy.com > jd@opentechguy.com > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Xorcom USA > Technical Support > jd.austin@xorcom.com > > > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Lisa Kachold > > wrote: > > Keith: > > On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 8:48 AM, keith smith > > wrote: > > > The U.S. Senate passed the Internet Sales Tax Bill. Jeff Flake's office > says he voted against it and John McCain's office said he voted FOR it. > > It is being reported there in some 9,600 taxing authorities in the U.S. > Add to that 560 or so Indian tribe taxing authorities. That is over 10,000 > taxing authorities. Yikes!! Any company with 1 million in sales will be > required to comply. I can tell you that a company that has 1 million in > sales is not a big company. That online retailer might consist of 2 or 3 > employees with some additional help from a number of consultants and > potentially a fulfillment center. > > From first hand experience, I would say this law, if passed by the U.S. > House, will cause a bunch of small online retailers to either go out of > business or reduce sales through raising prices or some other method. > > This may very well play out like ObamaCare where companies are reducing > the hours of their employees so they have less than 50 full-time > employees. In other words we will experience the unintended consequences > of these laws. > > These polices effect each of us. > > > Yikes, yes! And that will provide the revenue to expand Internet > government regulation and compliance. > > Sadly, it had to happen. > > > ------------------------ > Keith Smith > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > -- > > (503) 754-4452 Android > (623) 239-3392 Skype > (623) 688-3392 Google Voice > ** > it-clowns.com > Chief Clown > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > ------------------------------ > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > > > > > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >