Re: LaTop battery care and life expectancy

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Author: Stephen
Date:  
To: Main PLUG discussion list
Subject: Re: LaTop battery care and life expectancy
At least it was a side into baseball or baking instead of something really
embarrassing.

I recall from dawn you auto correct can't became a very different c-word in
a text from mother to daughter.
On Oct 11, 2011 8:19 PM, "keith smith" <> wrote:

>
> I almost fell out of my chair when I read what I wrote. I meant battery.
>
> ------------------------
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Tue, 10/11/11, keith smith <>* wrote:
>
>
> From: keith smith <>
> Subject: Re: LaTop battery care and life expectancy
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <>
> Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 6:59 PM
>
>
> Ok, I'll leave the batter out for now. Thanks!!
>
> ------------------------
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On *Tue, 10/11/11, Bryan O'Neal <
> >* wrote:
>
>
> From: Bryan O'Neal <>
> Subject: Re: LaTop battery care and life expectancy
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <>
> Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 6:56 PM
>
> Don't forget the issues with heat. the longer and higher the heat
> exposure the shorter the battery life. Also for my primary laptop I
> will remove the battery entirely if I am plugged in and intend to run
> for a while. Doing so gives me years longer on one battery.
>
> On 10/11/11, keith smith <> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you Joseph for take the time to explain all this to me. I think I
> > understand better. Since my laptop runs without a batter if plugged in I
> > assume I should only place the batter in my laptop when I plan to run it
> on
> > batter power only.
> >
> > The battery has been out for several months and it is still at 80% .
> Will
> > it hurt the battery to let it self discharge for a few months?
> >
> > Thank again for this wealth of info and thank you to everyone who
> responded.
> >
> > ------------------------
> >
> > Keith Smith
> >
> > --- On Sun, 10/9/11, Joseph Sinclair <> wrote:
> >
> > From: Joseph Sinclair <>
> > Subject: Re: LaTop battery care and life expectancy
> > To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <>
> > Date: Sunday, October 9, 2011, 2:47 PM
> >
> > All Lithium-Ion batteries have similar issues and, in general, similar
> > recommendations for care.
> > Keep in mind, however, that different chemistries produce very different
> > results, lead acid is very different from NiCd, NIMH, or LiIon.
> Different
> > batteries using the same general chemistry may still have very different
> > specific chemistry to meet particular cost/current/charge/voltage
> > characteristics. Lithium ion, for example, has at least 8 primary
> > chemistries (e.g. LiPo, LiFe, LiZnCo, etc...), each with a hundred or
> more
> > variations.
> > Solar systems often use deep-cycle lead-acid because it is cheap, mature,
> > and very rugged. That makes comparing solar experience to laptops
> somewhat
> > difficult.
> >
> > Some newer Lithium Ion batteries use new chemistry (e.g. Si cathodes in
> > charge-carrier flexible polymer matrix to accommodate swelling during
> > charge/discharge) to adapt to the issues below, but all still face the
> same
> > challenges to a greater or lesser extent.
> >
> > 1) Lithium Ion involves actual absorption and release of Lithium atoms by
> > anode and cathode.
> >
> > This means that there is physical stress on the battery elements, and
> over
> > time this will damage the materials. Deep discharge cycles and higher
> > current drain will make these happen faster.
> > Your cellphone battery has low current drain and long cycles, compared to
> a
> > laptop, and will tend to last longer as a result.
> > Letting your battery fully discharge before charging it will cause
> damage,
> > but LiIon also has an explosive chemistry, so power management circuitry
> > manages the battery, and turns off a phone when there is still about 20%
> > charge left in the cell to mitigate this for cellphone batteries.
> > The ideal usage is to charge at about 30% and not leave the cell above
> 70%
> > for too long (see issue 2 for the reason).
> >
> > 2) Lithium Ion current limits are dependent on the Li mobility, which
> > requires highly solvent electrolytes to permit high current usage.
> >
> > This means that the anode and cathode materials will dissolve in the
> > electrolyte over time, and, because of the electrical potential between
> > anode and cathode, will form whisker structures that eventually short
> across
> > the gap between the electrodes.
> > Leaving the cell fully charged for a long time (or constantly charging it
> > when not in use) will encourage these whisker structures to grow because
> it
> > maintains a higher potential between the electrodes. This is why leaving
> a
> > battery in a charger for a long time (months or years depending on the
> > battery and charger) will eventually result in a dead battery, even
> though
> > it was never really used.
> > Modern charging circuitry could account for this by discharging the
> battery
> > periodically, but laptops and other consumer-oriented devices generally
> do
> > not in order to maintain immediate readiness for on-battery use while
> > charging.
> > The recommendation is to actually use the device powered by the battery
> from
> > most of the time, and only add A/C power to recharge, when planning to
> > disconnect in the near future, or when usage duration is reasonably
> expected
> > to exceed battery life (even then starting on battery and adding A/C when
> > charge drops below 50% often helps). It's also best not to leave a
> laptop
> > always connected to power, and only plug in when charging is actually
> > needed.
> >
> >
> > In the end, the reason a cellphone battery often lasts so much longer
> than a
> > laptop battery (typically 2-3 times as many charge/discharge cycles) is
> more
> > about the different power requirements of the two uses and the specific
> > structure and chemistry choices made to match battery to load.
> > Research is constantly advancing battery and other electrical energy
> storage
> > technologies, so the performance one may expect for a given usage are
> > constantly changing, and different manufacturers may use very different
> > approaches to meet specific cost and performance criteria. This makes
> > comparing, or even predicting, battery life very difficult, to the point
> of
> > being little more than a guess, so the best advice I know is to simply
> use
> > the device in a reasonable manner, and keep an eye on the lifespan
> indicator
> > via the battery information probe available in Linux so you have some
> > advance warning when you'll need to purchase a new battery.
> >
> > ==Joseph++
> >
> > On 10/09/2011 01:22 PM, keith smith wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I've had several laptops and battery longevity has always been an
> issue.�
> >> Not how long it will run my laptop before completely discharging, but
> how
> >> long it will be before that battery is no good.� What I do not
> understand
> >> is why or how a battery can go bad from being in a laptop that is
> plugged
> >> in and why there is a overcharging issue. �
> >>
> >> I have two frames of reference, maybe three.� My cordless phone battery
> >> lasts for years.� I recently started researching solar power.� Seems
> some
> >> think the battery's life is extended by not draining it and having a
> >> constant change trickling into it.� One of the videos said the life of
> the
> >> battery was in cycles.
> >>
> >> My cellular phone is 3 and a half years old.� My wife tends to forget to
> >> charge her phone periodically and the battery discharges to the point
> the
> >> phone shuts down.� We switch batteries because I keep mine charged for
> the
> >> most part and rarely leave home because I work out of my house.
> >>
> >> The battery in my last laptop, about 8 years ago, went out in about 3
> >> years.�
> >>
> >> I have removed the battery from my current laptop hoping to extend it's
> >> life expectancy.� I rarely using my laptop away from my home office.�
> When
> >> I do I try not to go on battery power, however the battery is being
> >> charged at that point.
> >>
> >> My experience makes me wonder why my cellular battery can last 3 plus
> >> years and might last 5 or 6 years, maybe longer. � And my laptop battery
> >> is only good for 2 or 3 years.
> >>
> >> I've read a lot about laptop battery care, however it is still not clear
> >> how to keep from wasting a perfectly good battery in just a few years .�
> >> I'd really like to be able to buy a laptop and be able to use it for 5
> >> years.� What is the best way to approach laptop batteries?
> >>
> >> Thank you for your help.
> >>
> >> ------------------------
> >>
> >> Keith Smith
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
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