At least it was a side into baseball or baking instead of something really embarrassing. I recall from dawn you auto correct can't became a very different c-word in a text from mother to daughter. On Oct 11, 2011 8:19 PM, "keith smith" wrote: > > I almost fell out of my chair when I read what I wrote. I meant battery. > > ------------------------ > Keith Smith > > --- On *Tue, 10/11/11, keith smith * wrote: > > > From: keith smith > Subject: Re: LaTop battery care and life expectancy > To: "Main PLUG discussion list" > Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 6:59 PM > > > Ok, I'll leave the batter out for now. Thanks!! > > ------------------------ > Keith Smith > > --- On *Tue, 10/11/11, Bryan O'Neal >* wrote: > > > From: Bryan O'Neal > Subject: Re: LaTop battery care and life expectancy > To: "Main PLUG discussion list" > Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 6:56 PM > > Don't forget the issues with heat. the longer and higher the heat > exposure the shorter the battery life. Also for my primary laptop I > will remove the battery entirely if I am plugged in and intend to run > for a while. Doing so gives me years longer on one battery. > > On 10/11/11, keith smith wrote: > > > > Thank you Joseph for take the time to explain all this to me. I think I > > understand better. Since my laptop runs without a batter if plugged in I > > assume I should only place the batter in my laptop when I plan to run it > on > > batter power only. > > > > The battery has been out for several months and it is still at 80% . > Will > > it hurt the battery to let it self discharge for a few months? > > > > Thank again for this wealth of info and thank you to everyone who > responded. > > > > ------------------------ > > > > Keith Smith > > > > --- On Sun, 10/9/11, Joseph Sinclair wrote: > > > > From: Joseph Sinclair > > Subject: Re: LaTop battery care and life expectancy > > To: "Main PLUG discussion list" > > Date: Sunday, October 9, 2011, 2:47 PM > > > > All Lithium-Ion batteries have similar issues and, in general, similar > > recommendations for care. > > Keep in mind, however, that different chemistries produce very different > > results, lead acid is very different from NiCd, NIMH, or LiIon. > Different > > batteries using the same general chemistry may still have very different > > specific chemistry to meet particular cost/current/charge/voltage > > characteristics. Lithium ion, for example, has at least 8 primary > > chemistries (e.g. LiPo, LiFe, LiZnCo, etc...), each with a hundred or > more > > variations. > > Solar systems often use deep-cycle lead-acid because it is cheap, mature, > > and very rugged. That makes comparing solar experience to laptops > somewhat > > difficult. > > > > Some newer Lithium Ion batteries use new chemistry (e.g. Si cathodes in > > charge-carrier flexible polymer matrix to accommodate swelling during > > charge/discharge) to adapt to the issues below, but all still face the > same > > challenges to a greater or lesser extent. > > > > 1) Lithium Ion involves actual absorption and release of Lithium atoms by > > anode and cathode. > > > > This means that there is physical stress on the battery elements, and > over > > time this will damage the materials. Deep discharge cycles and higher > > current drain will make these happen faster. > > Your cellphone battery has low current drain and long cycles, compared to > a > > laptop, and will tend to last longer as a result. > > Letting your battery fully discharge before charging it will cause > damage, > > but LiIon also has an explosive chemistry, so power management circuitry > > manages the battery, and turns off a phone when there is still about 20% > > charge left in the cell to mitigate this for cellphone batteries. > > The ideal usage is to charge at about 30% and not leave the cell above > 70% > > for too long (see issue 2 for the reason). > > > > 2) Lithium Ion current limits are dependent on the Li mobility, which > > requires highly solvent electrolytes to permit high current usage. > > > > This means that the anode and cathode materials will dissolve in the > > electrolyte over time, and, because of the electrical potential between > > anode and cathode, will form whisker structures that eventually short > across > > the gap between the electrodes. > > Leaving the cell fully charged for a long time (or constantly charging it > > when not in use) will encourage these whisker structures to grow because > it > > maintains a higher potential between the electrodes. This is why leaving > a > > battery in a charger for a long time (months or years depending on the > > battery and charger) will eventually result in a dead battery, even > though > > it was never really used. > > Modern charging circuitry could account for this by discharging the > battery > > periodically, but laptops and other consumer-oriented devices generally > do > > not in order to maintain immediate readiness for on-battery use while > > charging. > > The recommendation is to actually use the device powered by the battery > from > > most of the time, and only add A/C power to recharge, when planning to > > disconnect in the near future, or when usage duration is reasonably > expected > > to exceed battery life (even then starting on battery and adding A/C when > > charge drops below 50% often helps). It's also best not to leave a > laptop > > always connected to power, and only plug in when charging is actually > > needed. > > > > > > In the end, the reason a cellphone battery often lasts so much longer > than a > > laptop battery (typically 2-3 times as many charge/discharge cycles) is > more > > about the different power requirements of the two uses and the specific > > structure and chemistry choices made to match battery to load. > > Research is constantly advancing battery and other electrical energy > storage > > technologies, so the performance one may expect for a given usage are > > constantly changing, and different manufacturers may use very different > > approaches to meet specific cost and performance criteria. This makes > > comparing, or even predicting, battery life very difficult, to the point > of > > being little more than a guess, so the best advice I know is to simply > use > > the device in a reasonable manner, and keep an eye on the lifespan > indicator > > via the battery information probe available in Linux so you have some > > advance warning when you'll need to purchase a new battery. > > > > ==Joseph++ > > > > On 10/09/2011 01:22 PM, keith smith wrote: > >> > >> > >> I've had several laptops and battery longevity has always been an > issue.� > >> Not how long it will run my laptop before completely discharging, but > how > >> long it will be before that battery is no good.� What I do not > understand > >> is why or how a battery can go bad from being in a laptop that is > plugged > >> in and why there is a overcharging issue. � > >> > >> I have two frames of reference, maybe three.� My cordless phone battery > >> lasts for years.� I recently started researching solar power.� Seems > some > >> think the battery's life is extended by not draining it and having a > >> constant change trickling into it.� One of the videos said the life of > the > >> battery was in cycles. > >> > >> My cellular phone is 3 and a half years old.� My wife tends to forget to > >> charge her phone periodically and the battery discharges to the point > the > >> phone shuts down.� We switch batteries because I keep mine charged for > the > >> most part and rarely leave home because I work out of my house. > >> > >> The battery in my last laptop, about 8 years ago, went out in about 3 > >> years.� > >> > >> I have removed the battery from my current laptop hoping to extend it's > >> life expectancy.� I rarely using my laptop away from my home office.� > When > >> I do I try not to go on battery power, however the battery is being > >> charged at that point. > >> > >> My experience makes me wonder why my cellular battery can last 3 plus > >> years and might last 5 or 6 years, maybe longer. � And my laptop battery > >> is only good for 2 or 3 years. > >> > >> I've read a lot about laptop battery care, however it is still not clear > >> how to keep from wasting a perfectly good battery in just a few years .� > >> I'd really like to be able to buy a laptop and be able to use it for 5 > >> years.� What is the best way to approach laptop batteries? > >> > >> Thank you for your help. > >> > >> ------------------------ > >> > >> Keith Smith > >> > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------- > >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >