After reading this huge long thread, I'm down to a few points and I
want to try and include linux in here as that is what this list is
supposed to be about.
I see some inconsistancy with the "conservative values" and even the
open source / free software movements. Many (largely conservative)
people embrase the right for a business to make money at whatever cost
and that would include the use of proprietary software like Microsoft,
Adobe, etc. and often brand projects like GNU and the linux kernel as
threats to this supposedly precious business model. I see the linux
kernel and other open source and free software projects as being true
grass roots movements.
This thing of individual responsibility is fine at the text book level
but look back at a lot of the earlier civilizations like Zarrest
Russia before the Bulshivik revolution. You had a high concentration
of wealth among a tiny part of the society and the rest were in
swaller. I got the idea that not all those people were lazy but were
probably held back and not permitted to gain progress. I've seen a
similar situation in South America where a larger poorer part of the
population is kept down so they cannot gain wealth or control or
influence. Then some socialist guy like Ugo Chavez comes along and
claims to offer a better situation for these people and they jump for
it. It may not be a good one but they see anything being better then
the status quo. Now I realize many people expect the system to do
things for them and maybe even go as far as to think for them and
that's a bad thing but individual responsibility only works if the
opportunity is there and people have access to it.
Oh and when people start in about the role of Government, thy praise
road construction but in the same breath wanna give lip service or
even less to public transportation! Again, it is the public
transportation that enables people who cannot drive to fulfill and
gain those opportunities that are out there. Maybe we need to stop
subsidizing Oil companies, airlines, and quit paying farmers to not
grow crops and so on.
To bring a parallel of what I partly said above to the linux scene,
take the idea of individual responsibility when it comes to a
new-comer to linux. She might be fairly familiar with Windows and
manage her windows machine without too much trouble but new hears
about linux and how much better it is. Well to get the most out of
your system, one might need to tweak things a bit and grind up some
shell scripts and aliases to really get the most bang for her buck.
But she doesn't know programming so now has to come to a PLUG meeting
or subscribe to this list and ask questions. She might even come on
and simply ask for someone to build some of that stuff for her.
Should she be expected to "figure it out" herself or should we step up
and help her out some. Yes, if she expresses some desire to lern
more, and get more technical, then we can start responding with some
links and an "RTFM" or two. But if she just wants to be a user and
not take that "individual responsibility" to higher technical levels
should we snub her and she goes back to windows? I would hope not.
Yes, perhaps one could charge some for some of those customizations
since this free software is free as in freedom and not necessarily
free as in beer.
But at the same time, we coddle up some scripts or DNS configurations
or queries or whatever and share with the community at large to help
each other out.
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 09:17:10PM -0700, keith smith wrote:
>
> Thank you Joe for taking so much time to respond to my question. You have caused me to look at this whole situation in a new light. I had always been against tort reform and after reading your reply feel that tort reform would be an artificial fix. From what you are saying is the system is made by lawyers for lawyers.
>
> So maybe the fix is to enforce the K-I-S-S methodology - Keep It Simple Stupid. Throw out almost all laws and get back to basics.
>
> You make some interesting and compelling points, thank you!
>
> ------------------------
>
> Keith Smith
>
> --- On Sun, 8/29/10, joe@actionline.com <joe@actionline.com> wrote:
>
> From: joe@actionline.com <joe@actionline.com>
> Subject: OT: Plug Digest, Vol 62, Issue 31 - the unfixable problem.
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 5:51 PM
>
>
> A response below (bottom posted ;)
>
> [snipped]
> > ... I took my wife to
> > the ER and the charge was $3054.00 for the hospital and the doctor wanted
> > $665. She received a doctor's assessment, 3 xrays, and antibiotic, and a
> > tetanus shot. We were there for an hour and 15 minutes max. I was
> > expecting $500 - $700.
> >
> > After more than an hour on the phone, covering 3 calls, and telling them
> > this would make a great media event, they finally reduced the hospital
> > charges to $760.00. I'm still waiting to see if the doctor will reduce
> > his charges.
> >
> > The tetanus shot alone was almost $1000.00. They admitted that we could
> > get the same shot at a doctor's office for $30.00 or $40.00.
> >
> > So how do we fix this problem?
>
> I used to think that I had answers to most problems ... but every day that
> goes by now, I realize that I have fewer and fewer answers. In part it's
> because the world has become an ever-more complex place ... but an even
> more pervasive problem in our society today (as I concluded my last
> previous comments) ... is simply greed.
>
> At this point, I don't think that there is a "fix" or a reasonable
> solution to the so-called "health-care" nightmare. Greed has killed common
> sense.
>
> While there are always honorable, caring people in most fields of human
> endeavor, the great tragedy is that the greedy are now so pervasive and so
> controlling in the so-called "health-care" field ... and the fact that
> most so-called elected representatives -- those who control the
> fabricating of man-made laws -- are lawyers who have basically no interest
> in doing what would be the right thing to do. Rather, they invent
> legislation that is so convoluted, complex, and compounded that everything
> has to be endlessly litigated to death.
>
> So, lawyers and legislators intentionally create legislation that has
> nothing to do with justice. Rather the laws are created so lawyers can
> run the meter to get money.
>
> Recently, when I was charged $280 for a 10-minute doctor appointment, I
> commented that I wished we had the option to sign an iron-clad waiver that
> no matter what the results of any "medical" consultation or treatment
> might be I would forfeit any "right" to sue so we could get medical/health
> care back to just paying for "service" actually rendered rather than
> having to pay ridiculous amounts of money for lawyers and lawsuits. He
> said, that was impossible because I as a patient could not stop other
> "interested parties" from suing ... even against my will.
>
> Therein lies a huge part of the so-called "health-care" cost. Lawyers and
> insurance companies taking their bite while providing no value-added to
> society.
>
> Greed by lawyers. Greed by suers. Greed by pharmaceutical companies.
> Greed by so-called "doctors" who are in it for the money rather than to
> help people. Greed by people who are trying to "cheat" death by insisting
> on extreme treatments waaaaay past the time that they should have just let
> go and let the inevitable happen.
>
> Recently there was a feature (on CBS 60-minutes I think) in which it was
> pointed out that something like half (I think it was) of all medicare
> expense is paid out for medical tests and procedures for people who are
> terminally ill and in the last two months of life ... many of them
> comatose for that entire time ... artificially kept alive on machines.
>
> That is an unconscionable waste of money that inflates so-called
> "health-care" costs for everybody else. Too many doctors keep the meter
> running by keeping people physically alive waaaay past the time they would
> be dead without pointless extraordinary measures.
>
> The whole so-called "health-care" nightmare is distorted waaaaay beyond
> reason ... by greed.
>
> Thus, it is not a fixable problem. Lawyer/legislators will never allow
> laws to be passed to put an end to outrageous lawsuits and insane awards
> for "damages" because it is their gravy train.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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