On 02/20/2010 08:01 PM, keith smith wrote:
> I'm old school and would suggest learning plain old C. Then you can branch out to other languages.
>
> ------------------------
> Keith Smith
>
>
I second that. C is simple and versatile, and spawned off a whole family
of other language such as C++ and Java.
Vaughn Treude
> --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Joshua Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> From: Joshua Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re:
>> To: "Main PLUG discussion list"<plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
>> Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 7:34 PM
>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:27 PM,
>> Michael Havens<bmike1@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> website development seems like the only thing I would
>>>
>> want to do so Ruby it
>>
>>> is!
>>>
>>
>> and that is the typical story with Ruby
>> developers... ;)
>>
>> -jmz
>>
>>
>>
>>> Unfortunately, it isn't on my Ubuntuu install. When
>>>
>> I tried to start it
>>
>>> it told me to apt-get it. No internet connection.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Joseph Sinclair
>>>
>> <plug-discussion@stcaz.net>
>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Let's not devolve into a favorite language war.
>>>>
>> There are situations
>>
>>>> where Python is a great language choice, and
>>>>
>> situations where it's terrible.
>>
>>>> Every language choice comes down to what you want
>>>>
>> to accomplish.
>>
>>>> Some languages are good for rapid development of
>>>>
>> websites (Ruby, PHP,
>>
>>>> etc...).
>>>> Some languages are good for systems management
>>>>
>> scripts (Python, Perl,
>>
>>>> etc...).
>>>> Some languages are good for developing large web
>>>>
>> systems intended to be
>>
>>>> maintained for years (Java, others).
>>>> Some languages are good for developing packaged
>>>>
>> COTS software (C++, Java,
>>
>>>> etc...).
>>>> Some languages are good for system software and
>>>>
>> embedded devices (C, C++,
>>
>>>> etc...).
>>>> Many languages are most useful in very specific
>>>>
>> niches (Forth, Lisp, ADA,
>>
>>>> XSLT, LOLCode, Objective-C, etc...)
>>>>
>>>> Most languages have multiple areas where they work
>>>>
>> well, and multiple
>>
>>>> areas where they're not so good.
>>>> What exactly you want to accomplish in your
>>>>
>> software development should
>>
>>>> drive the language choice, although it rarely
>>>>
>> does.
>>
>>>> No one particular language is the best choice for
>>>>
>> learning how to write
>>
>>>> software; each type of software development will
>>>>
>> drive a different choice of
>>
>>>> the best "first" language to learn.
>>>>
>>>> Mike, you need to specify your goal more precisely
>>>>
>> in order for the
>>
>>>> community here to give you a useful recommendation
>>>>
>> that will help you best
>>
>>>> accomplish that goal.
>>>>
>>>> ==Joseph++
>>>>
>>>> Kevin Fries wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wow, now I know why it is so hard to hire
>>>>>
>> people that are competent!
>>
>>>>> Python is fun, not right, but fun... Thats
>>>>>
>> your argument? If you want to
>>
>>>>> know why we refuse to hire Python programmers
>>>>>
>> at our company, I can give you
>>
>>>>> real facts on why you should not use that
>>>>>
>> language as a place to learn...
>>
>>>>> Not opinions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my Nokia phone
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Joshua Zeidner
>>>>> Sent: 02/20/2010 4:17:23 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Joshua
>>>>>
>> Zeidner<jjzeidner@gmail.com>
>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems like we have a lot of opinions
>>>>>>
>> here. Here is a paper from ACM
>>
>>>>>> on the use of Python in for teaching
>>>>>>
>> programming.
>>
>>>>>> http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=114017
>>>>>>
>>>>> sorry wrong link:
>>>>> http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1140123.1140177
>>>>>
>>>>> -jmz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -jmz
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Austin
>>>>>>
>> William Wright
>>
>>>>>> <diamondmagic@users.sourceforge.net>
>>>>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Alan Dayley wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Python.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Absolutely NOT PYTHON. It breaks the
>>>>>>>
>> first two rules of programming,
>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> assignment operator (=) assigns
>>>>>>>
>> values to a variable, and always
>>
>>>>>>> ignore
>>>>>>> whitespace. Well my first two rules,
>>>>>>>
>> at least. Plus it sucks at
>>
>>>>>>> consistent use of object-oriented
>>>>>>>
>> programming.
>>
>>>>>>> If you *really* need a
>>>>>>>
>> general-purpose programming language, look at
>>
>>>>>>> Ruby, it's slightly more well
>>>>>>>
>> behaved. Slightly. I would recommend
>>
>>>>>>> Javascript, it's a major programming
>>>>>>>
>> language, and you can run it in
>>
>>>>>>> your web browser with literally
>>>>>>>
>> nothing to install. Plus Javascript is
>>
>>>>>>> closely related to XML and HTML,
>>>>>>>
>> while not programming languages, are
>>
>>>>>>> markup languages (a way of storing
>>>>>>>
>> data) that is becoming very
>>
>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>> to know for many things. Though
>>>>>>>
>> designed for the web, many of these
>>
>>>>>>> things are finding themselves become
>>>>>>>
>> part of everyday computing,
>>
>>>>>>> especially XML. For these things, http://www.w3schools.com/ is
>>>>>>> popular.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any scripting language might be a
>>>>>>>
>> good start at learning about
>>
>>>>>>> if/then/else logic, but none of these
>>>>>>>
>> languages are going to teach how
>>
>>>>>>> computers really *process* or *store*
>>>>>>>
>> information on the inside (how
>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> CPU executes the program or how
>>>>>>>
>> variables are stored in memory), or
>>
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> that matter write an actual
>>>>>>>
>> interactive computer program, you will
>>
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> a real language like C or C++. After
>>>>>>>
>> learning something like
>>
>>>>>>> Javascript
>>>>>>> you will find C surprisingly limited
>>>>>>>
>> in functionality if you try and
>>
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> things the same way, especially
>>>>>>>
>> variable-length variables like strings
>>
>>>>>>> and arrays. Keep that fact in the
>>>>>>>
>> back of your head for when, if, you
>>
>>>>>>> attempt C/C++.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whatever you do, Google "<x>
>>>>>>>
>> tutorial" should bring up something good.
>>
>>>>>>> In the way of books, however, you
>>>>>>>
>> can't miss ones from O'Reilly (
>>
>>>>>>> http://oreilly.com/ ), they are jade/teal
>>>>>>>
>> and have a random animal on
>>
>>>>>>> the cover.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Austin Wright.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
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>>>>>>>
>> change your mail settings:
>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> http://home.joshuazeidner.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> :-)~MIKE~(-:
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://home.joshuazeidner.com/
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>
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