On 02/20/2010 08:01 PM, keith smith wrote: > I'm old school and would suggest learning plain old C. Then you can branch out to other languages. > > ------------------------ > Keith Smith > > I second that. C is simple and versatile, and spawned off a whole family of other language such as C++ and Java. Vaughn Treude > --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Joshua Zeidner wrote: > > >> From: Joshua Zeidner >> Subject: Re: >> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" >> Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 7:34 PM >> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:27 PM, >> Michael Havens >> wrote: >> >>> website development seems like the only thing I would >>> >> want to do so Ruby it >> >>> is! >>> >> >> and that is the typical story with Ruby >> developers... ;) >> >> -jmz >> >> >> >>> Unfortunately, it isn't on my Ubuntuu install. When >>> >> I tried to start it >> >>> it told me to apt-get it. No internet connection. >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Joseph Sinclair >>> >> >> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Let's not devolve into a favorite language war. >>>> >> There are situations >> >>>> where Python is a great language choice, and >>>> >> situations where it's terrible. >> >>>> Every language choice comes down to what you want >>>> >> to accomplish. >> >>>> Some languages are good for rapid development of >>>> >> websites (Ruby, PHP, >> >>>> etc...). >>>> Some languages are good for systems management >>>> >> scripts (Python, Perl, >> >>>> etc...). >>>> Some languages are good for developing large web >>>> >> systems intended to be >> >>>> maintained for years (Java, others). >>>> Some languages are good for developing packaged >>>> >> COTS software (C++, Java, >> >>>> etc...). >>>> Some languages are good for system software and >>>> >> embedded devices (C, C++, >> >>>> etc...). >>>> Many languages are most useful in very specific >>>> >> niches (Forth, Lisp, ADA, >> >>>> XSLT, LOLCode, Objective-C, etc...) >>>> >>>> Most languages have multiple areas where they work >>>> >> well, and multiple >> >>>> areas where they're not so good. >>>> What exactly you want to accomplish in your >>>> >> software development should >> >>>> drive the language choice, although it rarely >>>> >> does. >> >>>> No one particular language is the best choice for >>>> >> learning how to write >> >>>> software; each type of software development will >>>> >> drive a different choice of >> >>>> the best "first" language to learn. >>>> >>>> Mike, you need to specify your goal more precisely >>>> >> in order for the >> >>>> community here to give you a useful recommendation >>>> >> that will help you best >> >>>> accomplish that goal. >>>> >>>> ==Joseph++ >>>> >>>> Kevin Fries wrote: >>>> >>>>> Wow, now I know why it is so hard to hire >>>>> >> people that are competent! >> >>>>> Python is fun, not right, but fun... Thats >>>>> >> your argument? If you want to >> >>>>> know why we refuse to hire Python programmers >>>>> >> at our company, I can give you >> >>>>> real facts on why you should not use that >>>>> >> language as a place to learn... >> >>>>> Not opinions. >>>>> >>>>> Kevin >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my Nokia phone >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Joshua Zeidner >>>>> Sent: 02/20/2010 4:17:23 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Joshua >>>>> >> Zeidner >> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Seems like we have a lot of opinions >>>>>> >> here. Here is a paper from ACM >> >>>>>> on the use of Python in for teaching >>>>>> >> programming. >> >>>>>> http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=114017 >>>>>> >>>>> sorry wrong link: >>>>> http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1140123.1140177 >>>>> >>>>> -jmz >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -jmz >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Austin >>>>>> >> William Wright >> >>>>>> >>>>>> >> wrote: >> >>>>>>> Alan Dayley wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Python. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Absolutely NOT PYTHON. It breaks the >>>>>>> >> first two rules of programming, >> >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> assignment operator (=) assigns >>>>>>> >> values to a variable, and always >> >>>>>>> ignore >>>>>>> whitespace. Well my first two rules, >>>>>>> >> at least. Plus it sucks at >> >>>>>>> consistent use of object-oriented >>>>>>> >> programming. >> >>>>>>> If you *really* need a >>>>>>> >> general-purpose programming language, look at >> >>>>>>> Ruby, it's slightly more well >>>>>>> >> behaved. Slightly. I would recommend >> >>>>>>> Javascript, it's a major programming >>>>>>> >> language, and you can run it in >> >>>>>>> your web browser with literally >>>>>>> >> nothing to install. Plus Javascript is >> >>>>>>> closely related to XML and HTML, >>>>>>> >> while not programming languages, are >> >>>>>>> markup languages (a way of storing >>>>>>> >> data) that is becoming very >> >>>>>>> important >>>>>>> to know for many things. Though >>>>>>> >> designed for the web, many of these >> >>>>>>> things are finding themselves become >>>>>>> >> part of everyday computing, >> >>>>>>> especially XML. For these things, http://www.w3schools.com/ is >>>>>>> popular. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any scripting language might be a >>>>>>> >> good start at learning about >> >>>>>>> if/then/else logic, but none of these >>>>>>> >> languages are going to teach how >> >>>>>>> computers really *process* or *store* >>>>>>> >> information on the inside (how >> >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> CPU executes the program or how >>>>>>> >> variables are stored in memory), or >> >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> that matter write an actual >>>>>>> >> interactive computer program, you will >> >>>>>>> need >>>>>>> a real language like C or C++. After >>>>>>> >> learning something like >> >>>>>>> Javascript >>>>>>> you will find C surprisingly limited >>>>>>> >> in functionality if you try and >> >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> things the same way, especially >>>>>>> >> variable-length variables like strings >> >>>>>>> and arrays. Keep that fact in the >>>>>>> >> back of your head for when, if, you >> >>>>>>> attempt C/C++. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Whatever you do, Google " >>>>>>> >> tutorial" should bring up something good. >> >>>>>>> In the way of books, however, you >>>>>>> >> can't miss ones from O'Reilly ( >> >>>>>>> http://oreilly.com/ ), they are jade/teal >>>>>>> >> and have a random animal on >> >>>>>>> the cover. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Austin Wright. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to >>>>>>> >> change your mail settings: >> >>>>>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> http://home.joshuazeidner.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >>>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>>> >> settings: >> >>>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> :-)~MIKE~(-: >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >>> >> settings: >> >>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> http://home.joshuazeidner.com/ >> --------------------------------------------------- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >> settings: >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> > > > --------------------------------------------------- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > --------------------------------------------------- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss