What happens when we recycle? I think recycling is an area that needs work.
I think most people would rather buy a book than read online or on the computer.
I bought a book this last weekend and found it much easier to read than if it had been a PDF and I was reading on the computer. I spend too much time on the computer anyway.
Even though I make my living off technology I like to get away from it as often as possible.
I find the old fashion way of reading is still a good thing.
------------------------
Keith Smith
--- On Mon, 5/4/09, Joshua Zeidner <
jjzeidner@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Joshua Zeidner <jjzeidner@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: OT: Linux in a Nutshell (O'Reilly book)
> To: "Main PLUG discussion list" <plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us>
> Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 10:50 PM
> I think its pretty clear at this
> point that paper usage is a problem,
> so Im not really going to argue that point.
>
> your anecdote about e-waste is not really a fair point
> either,
> because 1 PC can process millions of documents that would
> be printed
> otherwise- so its not really a valid comparison.
>
> > and PDF with a cc-by license. I purchaced the book
> anyways, because the
> > additional value I get from the printed version
> justifies the cost, for me.
> >
>
> there is the aspect of 'memorializing' an idea by buying
> the book-
> again its really a sentimental thing at its core. It
> seems that
> yourself and others on here think that this indulgence is a
> trivial
> and innocent one, but I would suggest taking a look at the
> scale of
> paper use. Its out of control, even if you choose to
> ignore the
> 'killing trees' aspect, the garbage produced is enough to
> justify
> immediate action. The name 'Kindle' Im sure was not
> chosen
> arbitrarily.
>
> Regarding IP laws and economics, its a hot area and
> Im sure there
> will be legal and philosophical developments in this area
> in years to
> come.
>
> -jmz
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 10:28 PM, A. W. Wright
> <diamondmagic@users.sourceforge.net>
> wrote:
> > (Since we are top-posting)
> >
> > In your opinion! I am more then happy to pay my $10
> for 1/500th of a
> > tree planted and harvested and processed by private
> companies on their
> > own private property, or resources that would have
> been cut down and
> > gone unused otherwise. We don't cut down rainforests
> for paper
> > (rainforests are really only cut down for clearing
> land). <sarcasm>I
> > mean, /everyone/ knows trees are /not/ renewable
> resources.</sarcasm>
> > Companies have hundreds of thousands of acres of land
> just for trees, in
> > New England where I lived, the land would be leased
> for tapping maple
> > syrup among other things. What about the alternative?
> If people don't
> > buy books, what would they be doing instead that might
> possibly be more
> > harmful? I don't suppose anyone considered how many
> more times E-waste
> > uses, and how harmful it is? Or some other activity
> other then
> > reading/computing altogether?
> >
> > I happen to own (one) O'Reilly book (Firefox Hacks)
> and found it very
> > useful. Fact is online references just can't replace
> printed
> > instructional materials. For instance the book Man,
> Economy, and State,
> > great publication available online at http://mises.org/rothbard/mes.asp
> > and PDF with a cc-by license. I purchaced the book
> anyways, because the
> > additional value I get from the printed version
> justifies the cost, for me.
> >
> > While we are on the subject of copyright, http://mises.org/story/2632 .
> > Tagging OT. I often wonder which industries would be
> more or less
> > successful without IP laws, and how the economy has
> evolved around it
> > and been distorted by it. Perhaps the movie theater
> industry would exist
> > (because contract law would still protect movies) but
> DVDs, which are
> > the bulk of the profits, would be very different.
> Patents would no
> > longer be a concern, since especially nowadays the
> cost of not
> > innovating at all is still lower then the cost of
> innovating without a
> > patent and the associated monopoly (or would be offset
> by the increased
> > ability to use innovations you were previously not
> able to legally).
> > Trademarks would still exist in some sense, since you
> wouldn't be able
> > to claim it is a genuine X brand product (that would
> be fraud since you
> > are not getting the product you were promised).
> >
> > Austin Wright.
> >
> > Joshua Zeidner wrote:
> >> On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 7:28 PM, Alan Dayley <alandd@consultpros.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I don't understand the negativity around dead
> tree media.
> >>>
> >>
> >> The criticisms are complex. Primarily,
> chopping down rain forests
> >> to explain to someone how to write Perl is
> considered wasteful and
> >> excessive[1]. Its obvious to anyone who is
> serious about development
> >> that a few google queries rivals what you can find
> in any printed
> >> technical manual ( for $69.95 ). The core issue
> though is what I
> >> mention elsewhere in this thread, currently there
> is no dependable way
> >> to enforce compensation for authors other than
> print. Where there is
> >> no compensation, there is low or no quality.
> Amazon has an
> >> interesting initiative, the Kindle, but history
> has shown that all DRM
> >> schemes will eventually be hacked- so its just a
> matter of time before
> >> people are reading 'bootlegged' copy on their
> Kindles. Secondly this
> >> raises the familiar issues of the excesses of
> copyright. As we begin
> >> to rely more and more on legal authority in the
> realm of ideas, we
> >> start to encounter more and more exploitation (ie.
> people copyrighting
> >> chord progressions or yoga postures). We have
> yet to find a practical
> >> system that works and promotes innovation and art,
> obviously progress
> >> needs to be made in understanding what factors are
> at stake here and
> >> how to effectively address them.
> >>
> >> -jmz
> >>
> >> [1] Americans use more than 50 million tons of
> paper each year,
> >> consuming more than 850 million trees
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> It has many
> >>> advantages, including ultimate portability and
> no dead batteries. I
> >>> currently have multiple O'Reilly books above
> my computer here, all of
> >>> which I have actually used, some more than
> others. My Linux Pocket
> >>> Guide is an excellent reference. There's
> just something about having
> >>> three fingers between different sections of a
> book and flipping
> >>> between them while learning!
> >>>
> >>> O'Reilly, as a company, has provided excellent
> support for
> >>> Linux/FS/OSS with books and conferences and
> direct support for PLUG.
> >>> Sure, it made good business sense for them to
> do it or they probably
> >>> wouldn't but, that's OK because we both win.
> O'Reilly is supporting
> >>> new avenues of knowledge spreading with
> efforts like Ignite events
> >>> (http://www.ignitephoenix.com)
> >>>
> >>> While I believe printed books will be come
> less and less important, I
> >>> hope they don't go away completely. And I
> have learned something from
> >>> every O'Reilly book I own. That they have a
> book named "favorite
> >>> Linux book of all time" is another bonus to
> them.
> >>>
> >>> Alan
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Craig White
> <craigwhite@azapple.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I'm not sure why I am bothering with this
> but I do happen to own many
> >>>> dead tree edition computer books including
> many O'Reilly books but truth
> >>>> be told, they are decorating my office by
> residing on shelves instead of
> >>>> my desk so I think your characterization
> is slightly too narrow.
> >>>>
> >>>> It's also hard to ignore that O'Reilly
> actually has contributed stuff to
> >>>> PLUG and has solicited the list for
> reviewers which makes me think that
> >>>> the commentaries are overly harsh.
> >>>>
> >>>> Lastly, it is obvious that both Lisa and
> Joshua don't seem to care that
> >>>> Gerald expressed a personal pride
> connection with this particular book
> >>>> and I would like to ask Gerald what his
> connection was to "Linux in a
> >>>> Nutshell?"
> >>>>
> >>>> Craig
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, 2009-05-04 at 18:39 -0700, Joshua
> Zeidner wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> agreed. O'reilly = lame. The price
> of those books is hardly worth
> >>>>> the information in them. They're
> mainly used for decorating the desks
> >>>>> of poser developers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -jmz
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 6:34 PM, Lisa
> Kachold <lisakachold@obnosis.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Snore!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Bored with the under publishing of
> technical books, and over blown accolades
> >>>>>> for the few available....
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> O'Really now!
> >>>>>> I own that book BTW (and the Unix
> in A Nutshell it was patterned afer was
> >>>>>> well used too) but I find the
> actual sources of each distribution more
> >>>>>> useful (man, cat /proc/cpuinfo,
> ls, find) than that book, which is far from
> >>>>>> current or distro specific.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> big yawn with dreamy bleary eyes
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 12:41 PM,
> Gerald Thurman <nanofoo@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Tim O'Reilly just tweeted
> this...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Linux Journal Reader's Choice
> Awards: Linux in a Nutshell favorite Linux
> >>>>>>> book of all time. I'm honored.
> http://bit.ly/hhTBH
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >
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