Lisa,
clearly the bill at this point is a way for the banking execs to
get theirs before its too late. I can't believe this thing has even
gotten this far. Any idiot can already see we are in crisis. Did you
know that we borrow ~2 billion A DAY to keep our system running? At
what point does the line of credit end?
-jmz
On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Lisa Kachold <
lisakachold@obnosis.com> wrote:
> Except that the government doesn't have the money to meet FDIC failed
> deposits. It also doesn't have any way to meet the Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac
> guarantees. It's BROKEN and their "bail out" is not going to actually help
> all of the companies and individuals who have more than $100,000 in one
> bank.
>
> We have no real free market; instead partial government regulation, Federal
> insurance and partial controls that have CREATED this issue.
>
> What they will do, is manage the mess to hide their lack of ability to meet
> the FDIC and Fanny Mae/Freddy Mac historical requirements while hiding
> amidst the crisis. In the end, there will be no government involvement
> beyond "taxpayer" investments.
>
> It will undo a system in place for many years, recently broken by failure to
> provide oversight in government involvement. Economists have long been
> forecasting these events, starting in 2001; no legislator acted, instead our
> gridlocked parties, each without a solution or agenda that in total
> flowcharts to consistent success, drew salaries, often on bank boards - like
> McCain.
>
> It's a wee bit hard to sit by and listen to the rhetoric that profit is bad
> for "big executives" as if we live in a socialistic regiem. [A $500,000
> salary is still acceptable - I see?]
>
> The solution will reduce only the government losses, the financial fall is
> of course the market righting itself. Buying and selling, and repackaging
> and selling unsecured or partially secured and mostly vapor debts in the way
> of real estate loans under the umbrella of Freddy Mac and Fanny Mae was just
> the start, but it began in the late 1990's.
>
> If you didn't notice, American's continual denial that there IS A PROBLEM,
> complete failure to understand the credit systems, and unwillingness to
> change anything seems to be broken wide open. As I drive around the
> Matrix's spell seems to have lifted. Everyone sees the huge number of
> homeless beggars, storefronts empty, and worse.
>
> The press continues to report the full ramifications on CNN and network
> news.
>
> The ramifications for the American dollar as unsecured loans are made, and
> the government begins to play the market are also huge.
>
> This is far too little too late.
>
> Add to this the potential insurance giant liquidity changes from socialized
> medicine, and it's the END of the WORLD as we know it?
>
> || Obnosis.com
> ________________________________
> ________________________________
> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:11:52 -0700
> From: eric.cope@gmail.com
> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us
> Subject: Re: OT: Emergency Buy Out
>
> I thought I answered that question. Yes. The longer we drag this out, the
> harsher it will be when the house of cards falls. You can not prevent the
> economic cycle. Good companies will survive. Bad ones will fail. It is
> absolutely required that this cycle take place. Its how progress is enabled.
>
> On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 5:16 PM, Craig White <craigwhite@azapple.com> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 2008-09-28 at 16:52 -0700, Eric Cope wrote:
>> If you could point out the free market, I would appreciate it. A free
>> market has two required market forces, profit AND loss. When the
>> government removes the chance of loss (like with Fannie, Freddie,
>> FDIC, etc), people and corporations are not only permitted, but
>> encouraged to participate in foolish economic agreements. We do not
>> enjoy a free market. We are enduring within a perverse bastardized
>> socialist system.
>>
>> Oh, and by the way... the only depression we have ever suffered is due
>> to government interference.
>>
>> And, if we have artificially overhyped our economy with tax-based
>> systems, then yes, we need a recession to bring us back to reality.
>> It was the housing bubble that knocked some sense into people
>> regarding real estate. They would have learned their lesson if we
>> didn't bail them out...
>>
>> Economics is not about generating warm fuzzies for everyone. Its about
>> doing whats right for everyone. That does not include giving anything
>> to anyone.
> ----
> "Oh, and by the way... the only depression we have ever suffered is due to
> government interference."
>
> It's a good thing you aren't resorting to simplistic blame for
> historical events.
>
> I think it was revealed today that Hank Paulson dragged along his
> previous compatriot, Lloyd C. Blankfein of Goldman Sachs to the Federal
> Reserve meeting regarding the bailout of AIG insurance wherein it
> becomes suspect because this is somewhat unprecedented. Paulson because
> of his previous employment at Goldman Sachs knew that Goldman Sachs was
> a major trading partner of AIG and that the failure of AIG would cause
> substantial if not irreparable harm to Goldman Sachs. It's clear that
> the conflicts of interest throughout are really, really ugly.
>
> But again, all of the blame, finger pointing and decrying the lack of
> true free market practice merely distracts from the question that I
> asked...
>
> If Congress elects to provide no aid other than to federally
> insured/underwritings and you accept the premise that without providing
> more capital to the market place and businesses continue laying off
> people, investment portfolios continue to devalue...
>
> are you willing to accept a recession, possibly a deep recession or even
> a wide scale depression so that taxpayers do not 'bail out' private
> interests?
>
> I think that is a very key question and merely tossing blame doesn't get
> anywhere near the answer...at some point, you have to stand up and be
> counted.
>
> Craig
>
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